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Thread: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits, spywa

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Poor Pete, some companies don't want to do business in his area so he condones theft rather than looking at why a company would not want to do business in his area. Let's see if I have this correct: They have it, I want it, they're stupid. I wouldn't rule that out as a possibility, but why would they not want to sell to your area? Could it be that they don't agree with the regulation in your marketplace?
    What regulation? We are a common market, the regulations are no different in the UK or Denmark, where there is Netflix for example when it comes to establishment and distribution of online content.

    It would be like California having CBS programming but because you are in Texas then you are not allowed access to it.

    You say that rights holders are bringing piracy upon themselves. They could eliminate piracy completely if they just put out their content for free in geographically distributed data centers. That's the logical extension of your argument.
    Where do I say free? I even state that I would be willing to pay 10 bucks a month to see my favorite CBS tv shows.. I would even be willing to pay to see new movies online, rather than go to the freaking movie theater. But no, there is no such service in Europe or the countries I live in.

    Here is an alternative point of view: Content owners either can't or won't abide by local regulation to sell legitimately in your area, but these same government entities are obligated to enforce copyright laws and don't so you can freely pirate whatever you want to have. So you say you want to be honest but just can't because THEY are morons. At least you are honest in your law breaking.
    The only "local regulation" that is different between Spain and say the UK, is that in Spain it is not illegal to download trademarked content, but it is illegal to sell it and possibly distribute it. That is being changed sadly.. although the download bit by the consumer will require a change in the constitution. But that should in no way what so ever prevent companies in establishing Netflix type content providers in Spain... in fact quite the opposite... if they want to win their argument, they should establish such services to force through stricter regulations on illegal downloading.

    There is also no regulation that prevents the establishment of such services... in fact there is one "Spanish Netflix" type system.. well there was last I looked a few months ago when it was launched...but the company only has the rights to old movies (2+ years) and tv series (2+ older seasons showed in Spain) and only if they demand a high price. The monthly charge is 10 euros for limited "unlimited viewing" of 5 year old content, and you have to pay extra to see the "new content", which is only 2 years old.. wtf? Yes it is the content providers that dictate the price not the company that wants to distribute the content.

    No the problem is not the illegal downloading, because the illegal downloading is the symptom of the illness called out of touch entertainment industry. If people dont have access to content legally, then they will steal it to get access to it. It is pretty simple.

    As I indicated, I don't agree with all the tactics that the entertainment industry uses, but I understand why they try.
    Yes you would.. trying to keep the status quo instead of evolving... typical conservative types. You have a lack of knowledge on how the music/movie/tv content providers are abusing people world wide and then crying foul.

    Explain this... why was it that, Spotify could get clearance from EMI or Warner Brothers or Sony to allow free streaming with ads of music online in places like Sweden, Spain, UK, but not in the US, Denmark and Germany? That the only reason that it was eventually allowed in the US, was that Spotify had to change its business model and limit the amount of times that you could hear music for free with ads... in Europe, but not in the US? WTF? That took years to negotiate, all in the while services like Pandora poped up in the US and ONLY in the US.

    Why is that even on Spotify, within the EU, some music is only available in some countries but not in others? It is not like you cant buy it in the shop or on iTunes or Amazon, but the music companies refuse to give Spotify access in said countries..... and you blame the people who download illegally when the companies act like this?

    How about the movie A-Team, that was sent out on DVD in Russia, with English sound... 3 weeks before it hit the movie theater in the UK and Spain? Yea you betcha that movie was pirated big time..

    Sorry but you can side as much with the entertainment industry as you want, but they, like you, are living the past and need to grow up and smell the sunshine and change their business models faster. They resisted online music so much that it almost killed the industry, and now they are resisting allowing more companies than Apple to distribute their music online and they are failing yet again.

    Restricting access based on nationality and region is a very very bad idea in the Internet world.
    PeteEU

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Poor Pete, some companies don't want to do business in his area so he condones theft rather than looking at why a company would not want to do business in his area. Let's see if I have this correct: They have it, I want it, they're stupid. I wouldn't rule that out as a possibility, but why would they not want to sell to your area? Could it be that they don't agree with the regulation in your marketplace?
    It is not just a matter of netflix not doing business there. If that were the case then wait and it will eventually come when they can make money. It is a matter of the fact they are banned from doing business because of international regioning. One of my roommates loves BBC. Don't ask me why, but he wants to see their crappy programming. He can go online and the BBC streams programming but because his IP registers in america he cannot chose to view the BBC programming with their advertisements that generate their revenue because it is a different region. It is not banned because of content or moral restrictions. It is not banned because of national security, which would be BS. It is banned because the media conglomerates of the US say you are not supposed to watch the english BBC here in america. The best they will offer you is the modified american BBC.

    That is a load of BS. When the content is available and you are watching it under what should be a for profit system of advertising revenue for that company then there is no reason in free countries to restrict it just because of borders. If China and countries like that want to do this, then that is their business, but this is america and watching the BBC based on their profit based format should not be outlawed. It is litterally against the law to view that programming.

    There are reasons for this. The american Tv networks have paid to keep the BBC out of their market for competition purposes. Some free market we have there. Also, the boundaries exist because it allows american media, it is mostly american media, to capitalize on jacked up prices as you cross borders with media. If you chose to watch BBC america american companies get a cut of money for programming they did not produce and are limiting your access to. region based copywrites have absolutely nothing to do with protecting intellectual property. they have to do with limiting competition, limiting exposure to foreign information, and jacking up costs for no reason. The hell with that. If i want to go watch some foreign show because it happens to be really good then I do not need american media telling me what i like, and I certainly do not need to put money into the hands of american media for content they had nothing to do with producing. He is damned right that europeans and other countries should be ticked off, as should americans, that this BS is allowed to happen. In the past it might have made sense, but with the internet as it is today there is no excuse for having those restrictions in a free country.
    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You say that rights holders are bringing piracy upon themselves. They could eliminate piracy completely if they just put out their content for free in geographically distributed data centers. That's the logical extension of your argument.
    Here is the problem, you are wrong. It is not for free or provided for free. he is talking about netflix which is a paid service to access the library they make available. As an american if i like their library and chose to pay for acess to it in the profit based legal way I can pay. if this guy wants to do the same thing I do and pay for the same service he cannot. He is not even asking to pirate, he is asking for the same profit driven service we get here in america that could easily be streamed to his location over already existing means. That should be completely legal. Netflix would get more customers. The copywrite holders would get their royalties from the subscription service. Everyone would make money, but they do not want to allow it. He is absolutely right, that drives people to find pirated material because they do not have access.

    I am a long term fan of japanese animation. For the longest time there were simply no alternatives to getting that content here in america. Even as DVD sales came to the states we only got what our media wanted to bring to the states. Worse yet due to moral values stories were altered to remove references to GLBT characters, and to sanitize the stuff released in america for our protection from evil boobies and some animated blood. I can understand if it is on broadcast TV which bows to censors, but on licensed DVDs you paid for is ridiculous. Now they are realizing streaming is money to the japanese animation studios and you can now watch shows on first run directly from japan. That is allowed because it is a niche market that is not seen as competing as much with american broadcasting. It is profitable and increases the revenue for the people making the shows. So why can't some guy in europe watch some netflix movies on a paid subscription that gives profits to american companies that make these programs?
    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Here is an alternative point of view: Content owners either can't or won't abide by local regulation to sell legitimately in your area, but these same government entities are obligated to enforce copyright laws and don't so you can freely pirate whatever you want to have. So you say you want to be honest but just can't because THEY are morons. At least you are honest in your law breaking.
    There is the problem. the people who own the big systems like american media, the RIAA, and MPAA are all against the profitable distribution of products across country lines because they feaar for their monopolies. none of this copywrite fighting has anything to do with a few pirates. it has to do with protecting the high profits of executives in those companies. You have artists like Louis CK going out and self distributing his comedy material through the internet and making more money than if he went through the MPAA. They do not want to compete with smaller producers. They want to control what you have access to and how you have access to it because they make huge amounts of extra money from it. I would not have a problem with that if they were not trying to pass these bills for the sole purpose of driving the little guys producing profitable and popular content that people want out of the market because they do not like the competition. The real damage to them is other people producing and competition and that is what they want to go after.
    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    As I indicated, I don't agree with all the tactics that the entertainment industry uses, but I understand why they try.
    They have every right to try, but when they are so blatantly greedy and monopolistic it becomes a point to many people to say the hell with the unfair rules they impose. They would do more damage to piracy if they simply made their products reasonable. Just as unfair rules are a reality, so are things like piracy and knock offs. The more expensive and exclusive you make your products the more of a demand you make for knock offs and pirated material. Not to mention the more money the distributors of illegal goods can make the more power they have to do those activities. The more they fight, the more power they give to their opponents because people will find a way. It is like the drug war. It is near impossible to stop piracy today, their methods will only hit innocents as pirates will find out how to avoid them, and it only happens because of intensive greed.

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    What regulation? We are a common market, the regulations are no different in the UK or Denmark, where there is Netflix for example when it comes to establishment and distribution of online content.

    It would be like California having CBS programming but because you are in Texas then you are not allowed access to it.



    Where do I say free? I even state that I would be willing to pay 10 bucks a month to see my favorite CBS tv shows.. I would even be willing to pay to see new movies online, rather than go to the freaking movie theater. But no, there is no such service in Europe or the countries I live in.



    The only "local regulation" that is different between Spain and say the UK, is that in Spain it is not illegal to download trademarked content, but it is illegal to sell it and possibly distribute it. That is being changed sadly.. although the download bit by the consumer will require a change in the constitution. But that should in no way what so ever prevent companies in establishing Netflix type content providers in Spain... in fact quite the opposite... if they want to win their argument, they should establish such services to force through stricter regulations on illegal downloading.

    There is also no regulation that prevents the establishment of such services... in fact there is one "Spanish Netflix" type system.. well there was last I looked a few months ago when it was launched...but the company only has the rights to old movies (2+ years) and tv series (2+ older seasons showed in Spain) and only if they demand a high price. The monthly charge is 10 euros for limited "unlimited viewing" of 5 year old content, and you have to pay extra to see the "new content", which is only 2 years old.. wtf? Yes it is the content providers that dictate the price not the company that wants to distribute the content.

    No the problem is not the illegal downloading, because the illegal downloading is the symptom of the illness called out of touch entertainment industry. If people dont have access to content legally, then they will steal it to get access to it. It is pretty simple.



    Yes you would.. trying to keep the status quo instead of evolving... typical conservative types. You have a lack of knowledge on how the music/movie/tv content providers are abusing people world wide and then crying foul.

    Explain this... why was it that, Spotify could get clearance from EMI or Warner Brothers or Sony to allow free streaming with ads of music online in places like Sweden, Spain, UK, but not in the US, Denmark and Germany? That the only reason that it was eventually allowed in the US, was that Spotify had to change its business model and limit the amount of times that you could hear music for free with ads... in Europe, but not in the US? WTF? That took years to negotiate, all in the while services like Pandora poped up in the US and ONLY in the US.

    Why is that even on Spotify, within the EU, some music is only available in some countries but not in others? It is not like you cant buy it in the shop or on iTunes or Amazon, but the music companies refuse to give Spotify access in said countries..... and you blame the people who download illegally when the companies act like this?

    How about the movie A-Team, that was sent out on DVD in Russia, with English sound... 3 weeks before it hit the movie theater in the UK and Spain? Yea you betcha that movie was pirated big time..

    Sorry but you can side as much with the entertainment industry as you want, but they, like you, are living the past and need to grow up and smell the sunshine and change their business models faster. They resisted online music so much that it almost killed the industry, and now they are resisting allowing more companies than Apple to distribute their music online and they are failing yet again.

    Restricting access based on nationality and region is a very very bad idea in the Internet world.
    I wish there were more "available content" too. For example, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to access every great library at least in the United States. But I can't. And I can't get beyond rationalizations to this: "If people dont have access to content legally, then they will steal it to get access to it. It is pretty simple."

    No, what it is is wrong.

  4. #14
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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I wish there were more "available content" too. For example, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to access every great library at least in the United States. But I can't. And I can't get beyond rationalizations to this: "If people dont have access to content legally, then they will steal it to get access to it. It is pretty simple."

    No, what it is is wrong.
    But you can get access to the library of your choice. Your own Library of Congress is going more and more online with its material, and you can travel freely to Washington to access it. Point is, I cant travel freely (at least as freely as you, since I need to give my finger prints, reasons and financial information and warn the US authorities I plan to travel to the US ahead of time, and I am lucky since I dont need a visa) to Washington to access the content.

    Plus much of the content in your local great library is available... in all other libraries as well. It is only the rare stuff that is highly limited, which btw rare stuff tend to be. Your argument is a bit... not so convincing
    PeteEU

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Having said that even IF they somehow pulled of this draconian plan it wold get circumvented, it might end up being an inconvenience to some, but the same people who are able to crack other forms of DRM would also be able to neutralize these little "computer bombs". Those who pirate then would not have this malicious bit of code on their machines, it would be the ones who have the game legitimately who would have these little "presents" hiding out in their systems. It would backfire, people would not trust the legitimate versions and would be more prone to attain a "clean" version through other channels.
    I'm reminded of the big scandal, some years back, over a copy-perversion scheme that Sony included on some audio CDs, where, if a CD bearing this scheme was mounted on a PC running a compatible version of Windows, it automatically installed malware on that PC. Sony BMG copy protection rootkit scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It sounds like what is being proposed here is a much, much, much worse version of the same basic idea.
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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits, s

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Morons if true. The problem is not the people who so call steal their stuff.. it is the fact that they steal it not because it is too expensive to buy, but that they cant get access to it because of out of date draconian copywrite laws.
    Some of the time for domestics, that is true. I would have been prompted to pirate, say, Tron, when Disney made it impossible (and the used market prices for *all* physical media formats of the film were outrageous-upwards of $100+) to buy it prior to the theatrical release of the sequel-only making it available once Legacy was released on DVD/Blu-ray/Download. Of course, matters were not helped in the rental department, as I discovered that in my town of 70,000 people no rental store had Tron. Making matters worse, not a single legitimate online provider for streaming & download content had the rights for Tron. Most of the time for domestics, it is the expense issue, which is almost entirely a lazy excuse. International viewing, absolutely, you're right.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-29-13 at 04:20 PM.
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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    At least you admit that there are laws and you begrudgingly admit they are being broken.

    At least you are consistent in your belief that the public only has to want something in order to justify talking it. Price too high on a Rolls Royce? No problem, just take one for a test drive and don't return it. If the law says you can't? No problem, it is Draconian anyway. Steel away!

    A right not defended is lost. I don't agree with this tactic, but I do agree with their right. If they want to charge $1000 for a movie or song, then that too is their right. As long as I am not forced to buy it.

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    But you can get access to the library of your choice. Your own Library of Congress is going more and more online with its material, and you can travel freely to Washington to access it. Point is, I cant travel freely (at least as freely as you, since I need to give my finger prints, reasons and financial information and warn the US authorities I plan to travel to the US ahead of time, and I am lucky since I dont need a visa) to Washington to access the content.

    Plus much of the content in your local great library is available... in all other libraries as well. It is only the rare stuff that is highly limited, which btw rare stuff tend to be. Your argument is a bit... not so convincing
    I wouldn’t call scholarly sources “rare,” only generally unavailable except through subscription through a professional organization or via a university library, and even these aren’t going to subscribe to all of the, say, marketing journals because the cost is too prohibitive. Just FYI, public libraries generally don’t subscribe to the sources I’m interested in. A scholar at one institution is not going to be able to access the databases of another institution unless both institutions are members of a consortium, and I think that I should be able to access more than abstracts or TOCs.

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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Great way to increase sales.
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    Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits,

    Not sure what your post is commenting on. Clarification?

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