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Thread: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

  1. #41
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I made no attack. I granted your opinion, and acknowledged mine.

    Seems you may be having some difficulty being objective.
    unlike most posters on these threads, yourself included no doubt, who are always objective ... shame on that poster!

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Yeah I am not a democrat and I don't think that my JD/MBA entitles me to $1.00 just by virtue of having them. That said UHC could cut lawyer pay deeply because cost of past, present and future treatment could be taken out of the tort mix and things like the lawyer's cut of a PI case would plummet and the cost of things like Worker's comp and bodily injury insurance could be worked into to the overall tax mix and away from individuals and employers. The fewer plaintiff's lawyers would be a good thing for the medical profession and taking the pressure off doctors to churn patients and actually spend more than 5-10 minutes with each one would be good for patients and good for doctors who actually want to practice medicine and not their golf swing.
    Lawyers make a ton of money on things besides malpractice.

    And I agree, that's what I support a concierge medicine model over our current mess of a healthcare system. The insurance model doesn't work for the entire healthcare industry when 75% of costs are due to chronic conditions. A concierge model suits this perfectly because doctors want to maximize the amount of patients they treat because it means more revenue for them. Contrast that with insurance companies, who want to minimize the amount of healthcare they have to pay for to maximize profits. One suits the system and is affordable, and the other doesn't.

    But just because I'm in favor of reform, doesn't mean I want the government to be the power player.

    Also my point stands. Doctors only represent 8.6% of costs, and it is not necessary to cut their pay to reduce the costs of the system.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    IDK i went a number of years in life without health insurance. I don't see why its not feasible to let it be a persons choice and freedom to chose.

    Also a person enrolled in college often has access to a medical clinic - most of colleges even junior colleges in CA have them.

    I notice the OP didn't mention the issue with a spouse. The employers are going to be able to drop spousal coverage (not children just husbands
    or wives) or force the employee to pay plenty to keep them on their plan.

    obama care is great for the uninsured. It redistributed the overburdened middle class health care system to to the uninsured. So instead of
    waiting for 60 days for a procedure you'll get in line with the homeless and go 120 days or more. Congrats America the middle class has been
    placed where it belongs - among the poor.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You enjoy Russian Roulette!! I'm glad you won't have to play it with your family anymore. Even if you're not.

  4. #44
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The OP is a junk blog for which the proof of "my guess is..." and "Kaiser Permanente, for instance, is only increasing its rates next year by 4.3 percent."

    So his guess is that everything will be wonderful and since that's what he 'guesses" it must be true? So what he guesses is that everyone who can afford it will now get Kaiser Permanente level of quality medical care? And everyone else gets nothing at all - oh how wonderful?

    Swell. Kaiser is easy to understand. You wait 4 days for an appointment to sit in the waiting room 3 hours to be told nothing is really wrong with you and to take a feel-good Z-pack of steroids. Then, when it is FINALLY discovered you are in the end stage of a terminal disease due to months of delayed treatments for "misdiagnoise" they say "oops" and you quickly die, they having avoided all the costly care. BUT let's "guess" it will be wonderful instead - and then write a blog about how wonderful wonderfulness partisan hack guessing is.
    Exactly.

    Think about this - Here are the leading causes of death in the U.S. annually.

    Heart disease: 597,689
    Cancer: 574,743
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 138,080
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 129,476
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 120,859
    Alzheimer's disease: 83,494
    Diabetes: 69,071
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 50,476
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 50,097
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 38,364

    FASTSTATS - Leading Causes of Death - From the CDC

    Heart disease is a condition which more often than not requires immediate action such as - meds / surgery / hospitalization. If you are waiting to see an overloaded cardiologist for a few weeks to get a diagnosis, your situation could worsen or you could die.

    Cancer is something which must be tested for. Over half a million people die from cancer annually already - imagine if you had to wait a month to get an MRI to see if your chronic headaches and memory loss were because of a brain tumor.

    Accidents and unintentional injuries can lead to infection and death in elderly if not treated quickly. Elderly people often break bones without even knowing it. What if grandma needed hip surgery but could not get it for several months?

  5. #45
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Soon, there won't be insurance companies. That is Obama's master plan.

    Hospitals are opting out of Obamacare. As are unions. As is CONGRESS!

    Yet, you and I just need to go to the local clinic and shut up.
    I want to address this allegation because it is the bases for the rhetoric Republicans have spouted against "ObamaCare," i.e., bending the cost curve down.

    When you look at the framework behind the law, you will find that the federal government used three rationales to construct ObamaCare:

    1) The Individual Mandate = personal financial responsibility (A Republican idea borne out of HillaryCare)

    2) Medicaid Expansion = States Rights by virtue of allowing the states the option to form and RUN Health Insurance Exchanges of their own, fully funded by their tax dollars once fully implemented.

    3) Federal Exchange = rightful pathway to Universal Health care but ONLY if:

    a) small business owners*/corporations DON'T offer health insurance to their employees at competitive rates or at all.

    b) States opt-out of forming their own exchanges.

    Now, for those who have constantly argued that the state-sponsored exchanges are too expensive, I say perhaps, but it's largely a bull crap argument. Why? Very simple...

    States were handed (okay, "highly encouraged to take") money from the federal government. As most folks know, Medicaid is a partnership funded by both the federal government and the state. States have been arguing for years that they don't want the federal government to tell them what to do with their residents. In comes the state-sponsored exchanges - protecting "state's rights". But now they have a conflict because according to their ideology government at any level can't run certain things, such as health insurance or health care, better than the private sector. This is why many programs, such as Medicaid Waiver/in-home care/LifeCare, have been privatized in most Republican-held states. But even those programs still receive federal funds. The problem, however, is many of the very states that have rejected accepting funds for the Medicaid expansion are states that have low revenue streams. But if Republicans give in and accept the Medicaid match it throws their ideological argument out the window. Thus, when Spkr Boehner says, "he's standing on principle," that's exactly what he means even if doing so is morally and wrong. But I digress...

    There have been studies conducted by private, non-partisan groups that have shown that states (i.e., Alabama) would benefit financially in the long-term by accepting the Medicaid match. (UAB study: Alabama would benefit $1 billion under Medicaid expansion | al.com) Yet, the state's governor and Republican-controlled legislature refuses to accept this financial windfall reality. Pity...

    As to the other arguments, i.e., "soon there won't be (health) insurance companies...hospitals opting out of ObamaCare (here referring to accepting Medicaid payment adjustments and NOT the entire Medicaid system because hospitals DO accept patients with Medicaid and they do so gladly)...unions dropping out", these arguments are largely false.

    There will ALWAYS be health insurance companies. Why? That's the industry that stands to benefit the most from ObamaCare's full implementation. More clients = more profits for insurance companies. Thus, the larger the pool be it via private employers, the state-sponsored exchanges or the federal-exchanges, it all translates to "CHA-CHING" for the private insurance market. Anyone who doesn't see that a partisan for the Right and is simply very uninformed and just isn't using that grey matter between his/her ears. Think! for yourself.

    So, to summarize:

    -Health care finally gets a makeover after 100 years.

    -One side of the political divide comes up with the idea of both the individual mandate and the state-sponsored exchanges (individual responsibility and state's rights).

    -That same side (Republicans) decide as a political strategy not to vote in favor of the law no matter its form so as to not give an incoming President nor his party any clot, as well as to lay blame on the other side of the political divide should the new health care system fails.

    -The states turn to legalism in the hopes that the health care law is found NOT to be Constitutional; they were wrong.
    -Republicans then decide to attempt to repeal ObamaCare...37 times...and failed.

    -Republicans have voted to defund as much of ObamaCare as they can in the hopes that by not awarding appropriations that would place the health care system in ruin. But Democrat (and atleast one Republican state) are showing that the law can save money and increase access to health care.

    -Republicans decide to cut off their noses (funding) despite their face (ideology) to strike a unified blow to the federal government, but instead it's hurting their constituents - many of whom benefit from the very program they see as vial.

    And there you have it in a nutshell. However, I must add that Universal Health Care can only happen if the states abdicate their duty to care for their residents OR if the people deem it so with their unified voices by the power of the vote. And they will ONLY do so if the cost of health care continues to rise and they see no other way to obtain needed health insurance coverage at a reasonable price. In other words, WE, THE PEOPLE, will only go the route of UHC if both the states and the free market lets us down.

    *small business owner = franchises, not the commonly referred to "mom & pop" homebusiness or individual storefront. Just thought I'd let folks know the difference so next time you hear Republicans speak of it you'll know exactly who they're talking about and be able to discern the true meaning behind their "political speak".
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 05-24-13 at 03:57 PM.

  6. #46
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I get paid 17k per year. I pay 9,000 just in rent per year. So that leaves me with 3k (give or take a couple hundred) to pay for utilities, car insurance, and food.

    How is this good? Ooooh right...its good for the insurance companies and the State! Screw me right?
    You're getting back about $3k for paying too much in federal taxes. Aren't you...

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    You're getting back about $3k for paying too much in federal taxes. Aren't you...
    With a gross income of only $17K, he would very likely fall into that category of those who pay no federal income taxes. I ain't made at you, though. I just wish you wouldn't slap yourself in the face with such a foolish argument when you have so much to gain at tax time....it's called a federal tax refund.

  8. #48
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure...and if anything ever happened to anyone in your family that resulted in hospital bills you couldn't afford you'd just take em in and let the rest of us foot the bill in higher premiums for another individual that decided to opt out of paying insurance premiums.

    I'm sure you wouldn't take the wager with the house you plan on buying because if a tree fell through the roof and took out your living room you'd be screwed. In the healthcare department it's win win....don't worry about insurance..take the wager because the end result is just claiming bankruptcy.
    Sorry but I wouldn't do that and haven't done that. Indeed we are still paying on a medical bill from 8 years ago. Voluntarily. See, my family is responsible. Which is what we should encourage instead of bankruptcy. Indeed, we should get rid of the whole "bankruptcy" process all together.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #49
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Yeah I thought that at one time too. Then literally over a few days my body swelled up with pitting edema, not a good sign. Turns out I was diagnosed with a very rare congenital heart defect. With an ejection fraction of 10% and a myopathy classified as severe the prognosis was fairly grim and included serious consideration of a Left Ventricular Assist device (300k) and a heart transplant ($1,000,000,000). Pretty heafty bills to approach when one is fairly sick.
    Then I'll die. Even with health insurance I couldn't get that kind of coverage because I couldn't afford the kind of coverage that would require.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #50
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You enjoy Russian Roulette!! I'm glad you won't have to play it with your family anymore. Even if you're not.
    A bit hyperbolic don't you think Maggie?

    BTW, I still can. When we did our taxes this year we were told how much we would have to pay for not having insurance. A total of 300 some odd dollars. What do you think I am going to choose? 5,200 or 300?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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