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Thread: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

  1. #31
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Basically, you're assuming that we would lower the quality of the profession to cut what is less 10% of total healthcare costs. Its funny, all of these Democrats who are so eager to lower salaries for medical professionals seem to be quite against salary cuts against public union workers, professors, and lawyers. Why? Because they make up their base. Education costs have been inflating at a rate even higher then healthcare. Where are all of these open-minded liberals calling for the end of tenure and cutting GenEd requirements to allow students to graduate with less debt? Oh right, cost control is only for "them."
    Yeah I am not a democrat and I don't think that my JD/MBA entitles me to $1.00 just by virtue of having them. That said UHC could cut lawyer pay deeply because cost of past, present and future treatment could be taken out of the tort mix and things like the lawyer's cut of a PI case would plummet and the cost of things like Worker's comp and bodily injury insurance could be worked into to the overall tax mix and away from individuals and employers. The fewer plaintiff's lawyers would be a good thing for the medical profession and taking the pressure off doctors to churn patients and actually spend more than 5-10 minutes with each one would be good for patients and good for doctors who actually want to practice medicine and not their golf swing.

  2. #32
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The OP is a junk blog for which the proof of "my guess is..." and "Kaiser Permanente, for instance, is only increasing its rates next year by 4.3 percent."

    So his guess is that everything will be wonderful and since that's what he 'guesses" it must be true? So what he guesses is that everyone who can afford it will now get Kaiser Permanente level of quality medical care? And everyone else gets nothing at all - oh how wonderful?

    Swell. Kaiser is easy to understand. You wait 4 days for an appointment to sit in the waiting room 3 hours to be told nothing is really wrong with you and to take a feel-good Z-pack of steroids. Then, when it is FINALLY discovered you are in the end stage of a terminal disease due to months of delayed treatments for "misdiagnoise" they say "oops" and you quickly die, they having avoided all the costly care. BUT let's "guess" it will be wonderful instead - and then write a blog about how wonderful wonderfulness partisan hack guessing is.
    I'm not sure I'd call Ezra Klein a "junk blogger".
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  3. #33
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    This is exactly the problem with making the gamble based on "right now I'm healthy". No body EVER! plans to be sick...but unfortunately stuff comes out of no where and the care provided can be costly. It's either everybody pays in...or only people currently sick or in need of constant care pay ridiculous premiums because everyone else decided to roll the dice.

    A health insurance framework can not exist if the only people with insurance are those that need care! Even if the gamble pays off for an individual that is lucky enough to never need healthcare during the first half of their life they will eventually need care and without people currently healthy paying it there will be no affordable insurance for you. They system falls apart in a situation where everyone younger and healthier currently doesn't have insurance. Everybody eventually needs medical care. When you get older you'll need it. It helps to consider it in that light.
    The problem with not having full auto coverage is you might be in an accident.
    The problem with not having massive life insurance is you might die.
    The problem with not having disability insurance is you might get hurt and not be able to work.
    The problem with not having health insurance is you might get sick.
    The problem with not having flood insurance is there might be a flood.
    The problem with not having theft insurance is there might be a burglary.
    The problem with buying health insurances is that if you don't have the co-pay you paid for the health insurance for nothing at all.

    There are MANY myths about ObamaCare and health insurance.
    No, everyone will not be covered.
    Yes, this gives excuse to deny any medical care to indigent people because they didn't fill out the paperwork way back when.
    No, health insurance does not mean you get the healthcare - you get nothing unless you have the co-pay.

    Here's an example. The hospital here discounts "cash pay" by 50%. Co-pay is typically 20%. Do the math on $25,000 medical...

    Unless you have $5,000 in cash, they won't do anything. If you do have cash and no policy, you pay $12,500. However, you had been paying NO insurance premiums, meaning you still have 100% of your money. How long before you had spend $7500 in insurance gambling premiums? In that math, the insurance is a BAD gamble for healthy young people. A good gamble for old people. Maybe.

    And if you are paying cash, you don't have to negotiate with approval from an insurance company. Doctors particularly LIKE cash. I've given an example of negotiation, with green cash, a procedure's price being reduced by 75% and to be done NOW. When you figure what would have been paid for insurance premiums plus the co-pay, that that more costly medical year was cheaper than with insurance.

    PLUS you get ANY doctor you want, not just those who will play the government-insurance-paperwork maze game - which many refuse to do. MANY doctors offices post a list of all the insurance companies and government plans they do NOT accept patients from.

    Most people would win by instead putting the premium money into investments and let it build. Cash gets you discounts. Cash gets you the doctor you want. Cash gets you the care you want. Cash gets you first in line.

  4. #34
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm not sure I'd call Ezra Klein a "junk blogger".
    Ezra Klein, founder of JournOList, where the left wing bias of reporters like Klein was proven in writing? Where strategies to discredit and smear right leaning candidates was openly discussed?

    Not a junk blogger?

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Ezra Klein, founder of JournOList, where the left wing bias of reporters like Klein was proven in writing? Where strategies to discredit and smear right leaning candidates was openly discussed?

    Not a junk blogger?
    Go ahead...take apart his blog. He's obviously a junk blogger so it should be really easily to find the wealth of factual inaccuracies.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  6. #36
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Go ahead...take apart his blog. He's obviously a junk blogger so it should be really easily to find the wealth of factual inaccuracies.
    No thanks. Already have. But thanks for the invite.

    Anyone who has a history like Ezra Klein invites opinions like mine, and praise like yours. He is what he has sold himself to be. A margin player in the politcal moonscape.

  7. #37
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The problem with not having full auto coverage is you might be in an accident.
    The problem with not having massive life insurance is you might die.
    The problem with not having disability insurance is you might get hurt and not be able to work.
    The problem with not having health insurance is you might get sick.
    The problem with not having flood insurance is there might be a flood.
    The problem with not having theft insurance is there might be a burglary.
    The problem with buying health insurances is that if you don't have the co-pay you paid for the health insurance for nothing at all.

    There are MANY myths about ObamaCare and health insurance.
    No, everyone will not be covered.
    Yes, this gives excuse to deny any medical care to indigent people because they didn't fill out the paperwork way back when.
    No, health insurance does not mean you get the healthcare - you get nothing unless you have the co-pay.

    Here's an example. The hospital here discounts "cash pay" by 50%. Co-pay is typically 20%. Do the math on $25,000 medical...

    Unless you have $5,000 in cash, they won't do anything. If you do have cash and no policy, you pay $12,500. However, you had been paying NO insurance premiums, meaning you still have 100% of your money. How long before you had spend $7500 in insurance gambling premiums? In that math, the insurance is a BAD gamble for healthy young people. A good gamble for old people. Maybe.

    And if you are paying cash, you don't have to negotiate with approval from an insurance company. Doctors particularly LIKE cash. I've given an example of negotiation, with green cash, a procedure's price being reduced by 75% and to be done NOW. When you figure what would have been paid for insurance premiums plus the co-pay, that that more costly medical year was cheaper than with insurance.

    PLUS you get ANY doctor you want, not just those who will play the government-insurance-paperwork maze game - which many refuse to do. MANY doctors offices post a list of all the insurance companies and government plans they do NOT accept patients from.

    Most people would win by instead putting the premium money into investments and let it build. Cash gets you discounts. Cash gets you the doctor you want. Cash gets you the care you want. Cash gets you first in line.
    Sounds like a great system. Not sure how it works once you start hitting 40 or so and healthcare starts increasing. I'm guessing since everyone is so good at putting aside for their retirement they'll be deligent about putting aside for old age and the increased medical cost. It's a shame nobody has implemented a can't lose system like that in the world of modern medicine.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    No thanks. Already have. But thanks for the invite.

    Anyone who has a history like Ezra Klein invites opinions like mine, and praise like yours. He is what he has sold himself to be. A margin player in the politcal moonscape.
    An ad hominem attack on the blogger as well as me. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  9. #39
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    In the case of UHC, one of the one's paying the bill. If we can get a doctor from India or Pakistan who will work for less, then we should get them. That is how supply and demand works.
    This is not a good philosophy to adopt - this is the essence of outsourcing. What occupation do you have? Would you want to be beaten out of your job because someone from another country worked for less? We already have this problem. Many employers already outsource and Americans are suffering because of it. The domestic education of doctors would also suffer as a result, once prospective docs start seeing that it is pointless to go to medical school here when they can be beaten out by a foreigner who's educational standards and costs could be far less than their own.

  10. #40
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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    An ad hominem attack on the blogger as well as me. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
    I made no attack. I granted your opinion, and acknowledged mine.

    Seems you may be having some difficulty being objective.

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