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Thread: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I am not opposed to UHC so long as there is salary containment mechanisms. We would do well to pair that up with immigration reform to allow all comers in the nursing-doctor-health tech world.
    yeah, that's pretty much going to be necessary. we have to reverse the artificial doctor shortage, and we're going to have to do something about medical malpractice lawsuits. also, it should not cost a billion dollars to get a drug into phase three.

    my hope is that when most of the basic care is being paid for by one source, that source will have more bargaining ability. doctors in other first world countries still do pretty well.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    In the case of UHC, one of the one's paying the bill. If we can get a doctor from India or Pakistan who will work for less, then we should get them. That is how supply and demand works.
    They also have far lower standards for their med schools. Let me ask you, would you want someone who went to a school in Pakistan or in the US to be performing a lifesaving procedure on you? I'm willing to bet you'd want someone from the US, but you expect the rest of us to be okay with the doctor from Pakistan.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    yeah, that's pretty much going to be necessary. we have to reverse the artificial doctor shortage, and we're going to have to do something about medical malpractice lawsuits. also, it should not cost a billion dollars to get a drug into phase three.

    my hope is that when most of the basic care is being paid for by one source, that source will have more bargaining ability. doctors in other first world countries still do pretty well.
    Might depend on to what extent UHC occupied the field--if the system actually own the hospitals, then qualified immunity in medmal might resolve some of those issues.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    They also have far lower standards for their med schools. Let me ask you, would you want someone who went to a school in Pakistan or in the US to be performing a lifesaving procedure on you? I'm willing to bet you'd want someone from the US, but you expect the rest of us to be okay with the doctor from Pakistan.
    One of them darned foreigners did a pretty good job of saving my dad's life.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    One of them darned foreigners did a pretty good job of saving my dad's life.
    That really doesn't tell me a whole lot. I'm not saying a Pakistani can't be a doctor, what I'm saying is you can't really put what they learn in other countries on par with what we learn here. I'm for foreign students coming to our country for our colleges, what I'm not for is giving them a free pass on quality control. Though I will concede, foreign medical students fill a big need for primary care physicians. But my views on that are for another time, and another place.

    My point is, doctors are only 8.6% of total medical costs. We have the best doctors in the world. Ten of the top twelve medical schools are here in the U.S. America steals the best and the brightest from around the world to become doctors. We have plenty of waste elsewhere before we should even think about doctor's salaries. For example, medication non-compliance costs $290B a year, which is over $70B more then TOTAL physician compensation.

    The $289 Billion Cost of Medication Noncompliance, and What to Do About It - Brian Fung - The Atlantic
    U.S Physician Compensation Among Lowest of Western Nations, Survey Finds

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    That really doesn't tell me a whole lot. I'm not saying a Pakistani can't be a doctor, what I'm saying is you can't really put what they learn in other countries on par with what we learn here. I'm for foreign students coming to our country for our colleges, what I'm not for is giving them a free pass on quality control. Though I will concede, foreign medical students fill a big need for primary care physicians. But my views on that are for another time, and another place.

    My point is, doctors are only 8.6% of total medical costs. We have the best doctors in the world. Ten of the top twelve medical schools are here in the U.S. America steals the best and the brightest from around the world to become doctors. We have plenty of waste elsewhere before we should even think about doctor's salaries. For example, medication non-compliance costs $290B a year, which is over $70B more then TOTAL physician compensation.

    The $289 Billion Cost of Medication Noncompliance, and What to Do About It - Brian Fung - The Atlantic
    U.S Physician Compensation Among Lowest of Western Nations, Survey Finds
    I would assume that we would make medical school more accessible. I would assume that if we contain salaries there will be a quid pro quo like government paid training and living stipends that would open the field up to more people. I am not talking about making the surgeons work for $45K a year. I also would assume that things like drug costs would be forced down as well. I would like to see more LPN's and LPN's having their own shop for routine things like allergies and colds and crap less serious. I would like to see better access for homebound patients to routine medical monitoring for things like bedsores. There are lots of possibilities to improve care and access with a UHC system, but it will require compromises.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Yeah I thought that at one time too. Then literally over a few days my body swelled up with pitting edema, not a good sign. Turns out I was diagnosed with a very rare congenital heart defect. With an ejection fraction of 10% and a myopathy classified as severe the prognosis was fairly grim and included serious consideration of a Left Ventricular Assist device (300k) and a heart transplant ($1,000,000,000). Pretty heafty bills to approach when one is fairly sick.
    Yes, it is pretty scary that any one can become really sick and need hundreds of thousands of dollars of health care ( if not more) at any time.

    Almost 40 years when DH and I had our first two little ones we had minimum health care coverage. He was in a business partnership with a couple of his brothers and he and another brother wanted better health care coverage. The older brother faught them because he and his wife did not have children and he did not see the need for a better policy.they did buy buy the better coverage with major health coverage. About 6 months later the older brothers wife got a extreme case of Guillain Berre syndrome. Usually the disease just temporally paralyzes the voluntary muscles but hers paralyzed all her muscles but her eyelids. She was on a respirator and had a pacemaker and could only communicate for the first few months by opening and closing her eyes. She was hopitalized for a year.
    She did recover about 90 percent. She can walk with braces and her hands and thumbs do not have full movement.
    But her recovery is a miracle.

    If they had not had insurance he would have become bankrupt and our family business which is doing very well now would have probably never survived.
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I would assume that we would make medical school more accessible. I would assume that if we contain salaries there will be a quid pro quo like government paid training and living stipends that would open the field up to more people. I am not talking about making the surgeons work for $45K a year. I also would assume that things like drug costs would be forced down as well. I would like to see more LPN's and LPN's having their own shop for routine things like allergies and colds and crap less serious. I would like to see better access for homebound patients to routine medical monitoring for things like bedsores. There are lots of possibilities to improve care and access with a UHC system, but it will require compromises.
    Basically, you're assuming that we would lower the quality of the profession to cut what is less 10% of total healthcare costs. Its funny, all of these Democrats who are so eager to lower salaries for medical professionals seem to be quite against salary cuts against public union workers, professors, and lawyers. Why? Because they make up their base. Education costs have been inflating at a rate even higher then healthcare. Where are all of these open-minded liberals calling for the end of tenure and cutting GenEd requirements to allow students to graduate with less debt? Oh right, cost control is only for "them."

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, it is pretty scary that any one can become really sick and need hundreds of thousands of dollars of health care ( if not more) at any time.

    Almost 40 years when DH and I had our first two little ones we had minimum health care coverage. He was in a business partnership with a couple of his brothers and he and another brother wanted better health care coverage. The older brother faught them because he and his wife did not have children and he did not see the need for a better policy.they did buy buy the better coverage with major health coverage. About 6 months later the older brothers wife got a extreme case of Guillain Berre syndrome. Usually the disease just temporally paralyzes the voluntary muscles but hers paralyzed all her muscles but her eyelids. She was on a respirator and had a pacemaker and could only communicate for the first few months by opening and closing her eyes. She was hopitalized for a year.
    She did recover about 90 percent. She can walk with braces and her hands and thumbs do not have full movement.
    But her recovery is a miracle.

    If they had not had insurance he would have become bankrupt and our family business which is doing very well now would have probably never survived.
    This is exactly the problem with making the gamble based on "right now I'm healthy". No body EVER! plans to be sick...but unfortunately stuff comes out of no where and the care provided can be costly. It's either everybody pays in...or only people currently sick or in need of constant care pay ridiculous premiums because everyone else decided to roll the dice.

    A health insurance framework can not exist if the only people with insurance are those that need care! Even if the gamble pays off for an individual that is lucky enough to never need healthcare during the first half of their life they will eventually need care and without people currently healthy paying it there will be no affordable insurance for you. They system falls apart in a situation where everyone younger and healthier currently doesn't have insurance. Everybody eventually needs medical care. When you get older you'll need it. It helps to consider it in that light.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: "Some very good news for Obamacare"

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So based on some initital numbers the cost of insurance throught the competitive exchanges has resulted in much lower premium prices than expected.

    As the blog states I definately agree that California is the proving ground for if Obamacare works. Large state, heterogenous population, and they are invested a lot of resources and effort to actually make it work. Also it will be interesting since some large GOP states have pretty much decided not to play along and will provide some comparisons. Texas is specifically mentioned in the blog.
    Wonkbook: Some very good news for Obamacare

    Obamacare got some very good news on Thursday.




    Thoughts? Concerns? Competing views?
    The OP is a junk blog for which the proof of "my guess is..." and "Kaiser Permanente, for instance, is only increasing its rates next year by 4.3 percent."

    So his guess is that everything will be wonderful and since that's what he 'guesses" it must be true? So what he guesses is that everyone who can afford it will now get Kaiser Permanente level of quality medical care? And everyone else gets nothing at all - oh how wonderful?

    Swell. Kaiser is easy to understand. You wait 4 days for an appointment to sit in the waiting room 3 hours to be told nothing is really wrong with you and to take a feel-good Z-pack of steroids. Then, when it is FINALLY discovered you are in the end stage of a terminal disease due to months of delayed treatments for "misdiagnoise" they say "oops" and you quickly die, they having avoided all the costly care. BUT let's "guess" it will be wonderful instead - and then write a blog about how wonderful wonderfulness partisan hack guessing is.

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