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Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Session

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Surprising that this happened in Arizona
Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Session

An atheist state lawmaker tasked with delivering the opening prayer for this afternoon's session of the House of Representatives asked that people not bow their heads. Democratic Representative Juan Mendez, of Tempe, instead spoke about his "secular humanist tradition" and even quoted author Carl Sagan.

"Most prayers in this room begin with a request to bow your heads," Mendez said. "I would like to ask that you not bow your heads. I would like to ask that you take a moment to look around the room at all of the men and women here, in this moment, sharing together this extraordinary experience of being alive and of dedicating ourselves to working toward improving the lives of the people in our state."
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

Really? WHAT, do you see as "greater than yourself"? What entity do you bow your head to? Why should anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs act in the same manner?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

Im not sure what you intended by that statement, could you explain more?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Maybe you could consider it simply humble recognition of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Really? WHAT, do you see as "greater than yourself"? What entity do you bow your head to? Why should anyone who doesn't hold the same beliefs act in the same manner?
What do YOU see as greater than yourself?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Yes, suprising that it was in Arizona. Anyway, it's a very good sign.

The religious right might have to be placed on suicide watch, with things like this happening. ;)
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

It's not actually necessary for anything. It's not even needed for prayer, you can certainly pray without bowing your head.

So I'm not sure where you're going here.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Yes, suprising that it was in Arizona. Anyway, it's a very good sign.

The religious right might have to be placed on suicide watch, with things like this happening. ;)

Hyperbole much?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

Why do I have to bow my head to recognize that I am not the greatest thing in the universe? Seems obvious.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Hyperbole much?

It depends. :)

It's pretty easy, given the histrionics of the religious right.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

See. this is how you start a new religion kids. You put up symbols while demolishing others.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

No, it represents submission to authority. You don't bow your head in awe of a supernova. You don't bow your head because you serve a population of people. You bow to a king, to a ruler. And that is the ultimate reason why religion cannot have a place in a modern government. The ultimate allegiance of the government and its officials is to the people, not to anything else. Lawmakers who serve god do not serve the people.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

In the Catholic religion one is taught to be far more submissive than bowing one's head--one is conditioned to kneel. Shall we have all legislatures kneel to start the proceedings?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

In the Catholic religion one is taught to be far more submissive than bowing one's head--one is conditioned to kneel.
Kneeling in the presence of Christ's body and blood, yes.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Lawmakers who serve god do not serve the people.
Most find it easy to do both.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

There's never a good reason to bow in a democratic Western society, IMO.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Most find it easy to do both.

And when there is a conflict, which takes priority? If your answer is "god", then you are not doing your job. Go be a priest. You have no business as a lawmaker in a secular government.

No, it represents humility.

You may feel humble when you submit to an authority, but that doesn't change what bowing, lowering yourself, actually is. That's what an act of humility, of humiliation, is. Making yourself look lower to show someone else's power over you.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

And when there is a conflict, which takes priority? If your answer is "god", then you are not doing your job. Go be a priest. You have no business as a lawmaker in a secular government.
If you're representing others who serve God, then you're doing both.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

No lesser and expert on God than the Pope has come out in defense of athiests and believes that if people do good, even athiests will find a place in heaven.

Pope Francis defends atheists

As a non-practicing Catholic, this is the first thing a Pope has said in decades that I can get behind. There may be hope for the Catholic Church after all.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Bowing your head represents a recognition that there is something greater than yourself, an acknowledgement without which public service is impossible.

What? I don't know if it's impossible, but I do suppose the People are greater than the State, so the State can bow its "head" to the People.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

"I would like to ask that you not bow your heads. I would like to ask that you take a moment to look around the room at all of the men and women here, in this moment, sharing together this extraordinary experience of being alive and of dedicating ourselves to working toward improving the lives of the people in our state."

It's really more of an appeal to the pragmatic. By looking around, everyone for one brief moment can catch a glimpse of who will stab them in the back during the coming session, where they are in relation to others whom they need to stab in the back, and who has the sexiest aides and interns...

Good show!

But....

There is some delusional fantasy going on there.... "improving the lives of the people of our state" ???

:lamo

Whew,... next he'll want to make the Unicorn the State Animal...
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Whew,... next he'll want to make the Unicorn the State Animal...

Then they'd have something in common with Scotland.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

The words he quoted were: 'For small creatures such as we, the vastness is bearable only through love.'

What is wrong with what he said?
 
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