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Thread: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Session

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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Why do you think that belief in god would keep a country from doing evil things?
    A belief in God obviously doesn't prevent people people from doing evil things, if the news from London is any indication. Much depends on the beliefs surrounding the religion.

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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No lesser and expert on God than the Pope has come out in defense of athiests and believes that if people do good, even athiests will find a place in heaven.

    Pope Francis defends atheists

    As a non-practicing Catholic, this is the first thing a Pope has said in decades that I can get behind. There may be hope for the Catholic Church after all.


    While I feel the same way as the pope in this regard

    Does it not make religion useless? If non believers who lead a good life can go to heaven, why go to church, why pray, why donate to the church (instead you can donate to other causes)

    It would lead to the end of organized religion if many more people took that stand
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    While I feel the same way as the pope in this regard

    Does it not make religion useless? If non believers who lead a good life can go to heaven, why go to church, why pray, why donate to the church (instead you can donate to other causes)

    It would lead to the end of organized religion if many more people took that stand
    I think that you have to look at it from the Jesuit perspective to understand why he would not see this belief as threatening to the Church. Jesuits tend to use a combination of spirituality and education as their methods of conversion to the faith (a convert their hearts and minds, kind of approach).

    They also tend to promote action over words as well as having a social justice mission. Essentially, my take on the Jesuit approach is that they do good things for people while making sacrifices of their own, which are usually fairly visible, and this inspires the people that are helped to become a part of what they do. This isn't a historical perspective so much as a look at what modern Jesuits that I have met seem to do.
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    There was nothing archaic about prohibition. It was brought to us by the progressives, along with eugenics and forced sterilizations. Progress! More recently they've been "increasing liberty" with progressive taxation, state funded welfare, universal healthcare and... oh my bad, liberty hasn't been increasing with time. At least not lately. We must not be a "truly free" society. Or maybe its just that we're truly free to shape our government as we see fit.
    No, prohibition has been around for a long time in various forms, it wasn't new to the religious prudes who stamped around the country trying to end boozing because their husbands wouldn't come home at night. Other forms of prohibition are founded in corporatism, such as the prohibition of marijuana. But again, these things decay in a truly free society.
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What about the religious left? Where do they fit in?
    Perhaps they are the good and tolerant people who practice their religion in private?

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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I think that you have to look at it from the Jesuit perspective to understand why he would not see this belief as threatening to the Church. Jesuits tend to use a combination of spirituality and education as their methods of conversion to the faith (a convert their hearts and minds, kind of approach).

    They also tend to promote action over words as well as having a social justice mission. Essentially, my take on the Jesuit approach is that they do good things for people while making sacrifices of their own, which are usually fairly visible, and this inspires the people that are helped to become a part of what they do. This isn't a historical perspective so much as a look at what modern Jesuits that I have met seem to do.


    I think you're right. Because (and I can't absolutely vouch for this) my understanding is that the "Liberation Theologists" who were so brutally treated by the right-wing Latin American regimes in the 1980s were of the Jesuit school...and the Official Church itself in fact distanced itself from them, perhaps preferring the elites over the poor, who were the subject of the Lliberation Theologists's concern.
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No lesser and expert on God than the Pope has come out in defense of athiests and believes that if people do good, even athiests will find a place in heaven.

    Pope Francis defends atheists

    As a non-practicing Catholic, this is the first thing a Pope has said in decades that I can get behind. There may be hope for the Catholic Church after all.
    I'm a catholic atheist and I feel many people are misrepresenting what he said. Jesus sacrificed himself for everyones salvation and non-Catholics can perform good acts. This is nothing new. But the fact remains you have to accept Catholic doctrine (acknowledge that Jesus sacrificed himself and is what he said he was) and perform good acts to find a place in heaven. But you can't be a good agnostic/atheist/other religion and expect heaven.

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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    I think you're right. Because (and I can't absolutely vouch for this) my understanding is that the "Liberation Theologists" who were so brutally treated by the right-wing Latin American regimes in the 1980s were of the Jesuit school...and the Official Church itself in fact distanced itself from them, perhaps preferring the elites over the poor, who were the subject of the Lliberation Theologists's concern.
    Sounds about right to me, but my wife is the real expert on the Jesuits. My knowledge of them and their history is pretty much just my flawed comprehension of what she taught me.
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Sounds about right to me, but my wife is the real expert on the Jesuits. My knowledge of them and their history is pretty much just my flawed comprehension of what she taught me.
    Oh, I hear you. My own views on the matter are based on pretty flimsy ground.
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    Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That system of laws predicated on individual rights and liberty brought us prohibition, kept women from working, enslaved Africans, and would have no issue with outlawing abortion, placing restrictions on marriage, and disallowing work on Sundays if the people wished it to be so.

    Being a nation ruled by law...isn't an overnight, perfect institution. There has been an evolution of governmental laws (aka - moral principles), which are derivatives of the concepts of individual rights and freedoms. The idea is to construct laws that are to effectively serve us all as equally as possible. In other words, we work toward creating laws that are as unbiased as possible to whom they apply.

    We have a long sorted history of religions having authority over societies...and the history shows us all a very dark side of humans controlling other humans based on religious tenets.

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