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Thread: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Some how I got a feeling that you do, you're just ignoring it. Yes in previous years some of what is in Obamacare was suggested by Repbulicans. But those ideas were shot down, not just by other Senators and such but also by the People who disapproved of those ideas...and still do. When those ideas were brought up again, by the Democrats, the Republicans this time sided with the People because the People opposed those ideas just as they did when Republicans suggested them years before. IE The Republicans sided with the majority of the People. The Democrats went against the majority of the People.

    So your point that they were at one time Republican ideas holds no water anymore because the Republicans dropped those ideas when they first got shot down. The Democrats picked them up again for Obamacare and despite what the majority of the People said and wanted voted for those ideas...making them Democrat ideas. Not Republican, because again, Republicans dropped the idea.
    Not sure that is entirely true considering Romneycare. But it doesn't really matter. The original ideas put in the table were better, but derailed by republicans and the woefully misinformed tea party. What came next largely came from republican ideas. My hat is he only point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Can you provide an example of a person who could have been treated but was denied and therefore had to get that care at the ER?

    EDIT:
    What characterizes this segment of the population?
    First item in a search:

    How Uninsured Americans Affect Your Care

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure that is entirely true considering Romneycare. But it doesn't really matter. The original ideas put in the table were better, but derailed by republicans and the woefully misinformed tea party. What came next largely came from republican ideas. My hat is he only point.
    How could the Republican's derail anything? Despite 100% opposition from Republicans in the Senate the bill still passed. The bill was constructed behind closed doors and without any republican input. Obamacare is purely in the Democrats court.
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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    How could the Republican's derail anything? Despite 100% opposition from Republicans in the Senate the bill still passed. The bill was constructed behind closed doors and without any republican input. Obamacare is purely in the Democrats court.
    Because there was first an effort to work with republicans. You would right if they just went and left them to begin with, and there wasn't that tea party silliness.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I guess I just don't see how we're "denying" them care. In both examples, the men said they could "not afford" insurance. If that were indeed true, they would have qualified for Medicaid.

    So, it's not so much that we're denying healthcare to a class of citizens, it's that we have a class of citizens that essentially gamble on whether or not they'll need the care. Is it really "immoral" not to provide free care for people who can afford it but choose not to? Conversely, is it "moral" to force these people to pay for coverage they might not want? I can see arguments for why and why not, I just don't think it's fair to call the status quo immoral.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I guess I just don't see how we're "denying" them care. In both examples, the men said they could "not afford" insurance. If that were indeed true, they would have qualified for Medicaid.

    So, it's not so much that we're denying healthcare to a class of citizens, it's that we have a class of citizens that essentially gamble on whether or not they'll need the care. Is it really "immoral" not to provide free care for people who can afford it but choose not to? Conversely, is it "moral" to force these people to pay for coverage they might not want? I can see arguments for why and why not, I just don't think it's fair to call the status quo immoral.
    That's not true. The working poor are the most under represented group in American. Many work and thus don't qualify for government programs and can't afford either insurance or to pay for he care themselves. Much has been written in this.

    We make people do things they don't want all the time from car insurance to taxes to attending school. Nothing immoral about it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Flexible spending accounts don't impress me much, but I don't believe they are outlawed in any way. And yes, the young do have to pay, and they will be old one day. However, too many young over estimate their invulnerability and end up passing costs on to everyone else.

    As for moral hazard, allowing any segment of the population to not be able to receive necessary healthcare is not only immoral, but a public health issue.
    On average, the young use FAR less health care then the old do. Their costs should proportionally be as such. Not only was it not proportionally less before this law, but this law made reduced that proportionality even further. The costs are being passed on to them, not the other way around.

    Given this piece of information, it is quite obvious the purpose of the mandate is to force individuals to force people who do not consume a lot of health care to pay for those who do consume a lot of healthcare. Moral hazard.

    FSA may not impress you, but limiting them is just a ploy to force more people into the system. Nothing more, nothing less. And you're right, young people will eventually be old. FSA are a way for people to save for their OWN healthcare. The government can subsidize this.

    Also, your last point is a myth. The National Center for Policy Institute estimates that each uninsured American receives approximately $1,500 worth of free healthcare per year.. Anyone can receive treatment, what we are talking about is coverage.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    On average, the young use FAR less health care then the old do. Their costs should proportionally be as such. Not only was it not proportionally less before this law, but this law made reduced that proportionality even further. The costs are being passed on to them, not the other way around.

    Given this piece of information, it is quite obvious the purpose of the mandate is to force individuals to force people who do not consume a lot of health care to pay for those who do consume a lot of healthcare. Moral hazard.

    FSA may not impress you, but limiting them is just a ploy to force more people into the system. Nothing more, nothing less. And you're right, young people will eventually be old. FSA are a way for people to save for their OWN healthcare. The government can subsidize this.

    Also, your last point is a myth. The National Center for Policy Institute estimates that each uninsured American receives approximately $1,500 worth of free healthcare per year.. Anyone can receive treatment, what we are talking about is coverage.
    Yes, they do. And barring death, they will one day be old.

    And no, yelling ploy is not equal to actual evidence. They are not outlawed, and largely are more gimmick than solution.

    And, no, not a myth. Nothing is free. We all pay for it. 1,500 is not a lot of money, so it doesn't begin to solve the problem.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Not a bad thought from the President. It was one of the common talking points against the bill, was that once it starts it won't stop. Those in support of the bill thought that the good would dramatically outweigh whatever problems would surface, and opposition to the bill would gradually diminish.
    It won't diminish as long as republicans keep trying to repeal it. 37 times and millions of dollars later it is still the law of the land.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, they do. And barring death, they will one day be old.

    And no, yelling ploy is not equal to actual evidence. They are not outlawed, and largely are more gimmick than solution.

    And, no, not a myth. Nothing is free. We all pay for it. 1,500 is not a lot of money, so it doesn't begin to solve the problem.
    So why can't I save for my own old age healthcare instead of paying for a 500 pound obese smoker's old age healthcare? That is a moral hazard.

    Where did I say they were outlawed? It would be wise of you to read my actual points instead of making ones up for me.

    I'm saying, it is a myth that they don't receive any healthcare. They do. And again, price fixing isn't the solution to any problem.

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