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Thread: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    So you are saying that the ACA law is a lie? Tell me how you have come to that conclusion. The ACA has nothing to do with the deficit. My point was the talking points by republicans.
    There is nothing about the law that gives it the power to determine premiums. We only have the merits of the provisions passed to go by, and those suggest that there will be an upward pressure on premiums to go higher.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    You live in a delusional fantasy if you think that the government can provide health insurance for all Americans for a cheaper price then it provides it for half of Americans already. We already spend more money on public run healthcare then any other country in the world.
    It's actually harder and more expensive to provide it or the most needy than it is for everyone. There is a reason why insurance companies really only want healthy people. We spend more because we have no actual system, and doing things ad hoc as hospitals and healthcare professionals do allow for a lot of overcharging. Ask yourself if a bandaid that us no different than found in a box of band aids at any store for less than $2 is really $16 dollars for each single bandaid at a hospital. This price shifting under a real system would end.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    No it doesn't equal out. That's my point. If I live healthy, I'm going to have less healthcare costs every step of the way then someone who doesn't. Asking me to pay for them isn't equaling out. It's a moral hazard.

    Look up the healthcare system of Singapore. They use health savings accounts, and the government helps subsidize the costs of emergency procedures. Its a system that works and keeps costs down.

    Where do you get this idea? Americans have shorter waiting periods, better technology, more advanced treatments, and better health outcomes for heart disease, stroke, hypertension, diabetes, and nearly every category of cancer. Healthcare access isn't reducible to a single denominator on how many people are insured. In many other countries, everyone has health insurance, they just don't get the same level of treatment as they get here.

    Well you certainly don't want too many doctors. Some supply control is absolutely necessary to control for quality. Besides, doctors make up less then 10% of all healthcare costs. As a % of healthcare costs, its actually amoung the lowest in the world. U.S Physician Compensation Among Lowest of Western Nations, Survey Finds
    Do you know how many people complain about a lack of doctors. You really should talk to some of the conservatives around here who say we can't treat those needing treatment due to a lack of doctors.


    But yes, doctors are small in number, but contribute significantly to cost. One thing being done tom lower costs is to have treats not requiring a physician done by less costly personnel.

    I will look up Singapore later, but I'm not sure how comparable they are. But I will investigate.


    No American wait times are not significantly shorter. Nor is technology equal o better care, just more expensive care. The wealthy do well here, true. But poorer consumers don't. There is a real inequality in the treatment of Americans.

    As for you being robbed, none of us know the future. I remember a similar argument from an old political forum user, Missouri Mule, great guy, who saw his circumstances change and thus led to him modifying his view. It could happen to you or any of as well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol! I love this idea of doing things people hate, but will love later. The best part is that the people that say it love to spout that the government only does what the people want and that the US is for the people, by the people. I can't imagine how they can say the country is for the people, by the people and then support the passing laws without public support. You guys can start being consistent whenever you please.

    Btw, ideas put out by think tank represent the think tank and no one else.
    This actually is a government of the people by he people. However, today that means wealthy people. Money is free speech and more money means more speech, more influence. The using and capitulation works both ways between government and earthy, but the money s are largest problem.

    However, we really don't use the one bit of power we have, the vote, effectively. And we allow ourselves to be fooled by silly arguments and tricked by old worn tactics. This makes us weak and ineffective.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    No it doesn't equal out. That's my point. If I live healthy, I'm going to have less healthcare costs every step of the way then someone who doesn't. Asking me to pay for them isn't equaling out. It's a moral hazard.

    Look up the healthcare system of Singapore. They use health savings accounts, and the government helps subsidize the costs of emergency procedures. Its a system that works and keeps costs down.

    Where do you get this idea? Americans have shorter waiting periods, better technology, more advanced treatments, and better health outcomes for heart disease, stroke, hypertension, diabetes, and nearly every category of cancer. Healthcare access isn't reducible to a single denominator on how many people are insured. In many other countries, everyone has health insurance, they just don't get the same level of treatment as they get here.

    Well you certainly don't want too many doctors. Some supply control is absolutely necessary to control for quality. Besides, doctors make up less then 10% of all healthcare costs. As a % of healthcare costs, its actually amoung the lowest in the world. U.S Physician Compensation Among Lowest of Western Nations, Survey Finds
    As promised, did look at Singapore. A few things of note:

    Singapore has a non-modified universal healthcare system where the government ensures affordability of healthcare within the public health system, largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies and price controls.

    (The other two elements would face major resistance here, but would be necessary for this plan.)

    The increasingly large private sector provides care to those who are privately insured, foreign patients, or public patients who are able to afford what often amount to very large out-of-pocket payments above the levels provided by government subsidies.

    (A second system, as could be done with any universal payer system).

    Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP, partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.

    (Also something that could happen with any single payer system.)

    Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This article suggests the elderly are presenting same problems for them as for us:

    Healthcare For The Elderly: Can And Should We Do More?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This actually is a government of the people by he people. However, today that means wealthy people. Money is free speech and more money means more speech, more influence. The using and capitulation works both ways between government and earthy, but the money s are largest problem.
    What does that have to do with democrats passing a healthcare reform law in very clear opposition to what the people wanted? The only part of the law that you could say was influenced by money is the mandate to buy health insurance, but in reality it was just a way to shift blame to the republicans.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What does that have to do with democrats passing a healthcare reform law in very clear opposition to what the people wanted? The only part of the law that you could say was influenced by money is the mandate to buy health insurance, but in reality it was just a way to shift blame to the republicans.
    If you look at polling honestly, it wasn't in opposition to what people wanted. People wanted everything in the bill but he mechanism to pay for it. Because people choose to join the tea party histeria, once gain the door was open to work with money, and insurance moaners had more influence than they should have.

    That is how the comments realate.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you look at polling honestly, it wasn't in opposition to what people wanted. People wanted everything in the bill but he mechanism to pay for it. Because people choose to join the tea party histeria, once gain the door was open to work with money, and insurance moaners had more influence than they should have.

    That is how the comments realate.
    No, if I look at the polling data, the law was undesirable even with the public option or UHC added. It only got worse when the mandate was added is all. There is no proof what so ever that the democrats added the mandate for money or to help insurance businesses, but I suppose if you want to ignore how they been using it since you could make that argument.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, if I look at the polling data, the law was undesirable even with the public option or UHC added. It only got worse when the mandate was added is all. There is no proof what so ever that the democrats added the mandate for money or to help insurance businesses, but I suppose if you want to ignore how they been using it since you could make that argument.
    Then you're not looking at it, but are making things up.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As promised, did look at Singapore. A few things of note:

    Singapore has a non-modified universal healthcare system where the government ensures affordability of healthcare within the public health system, largely through a system of compulsory savings, subsidies and price controls.

    (The other two elements would face major resistance here, but would be necessary for this plan.)

    The increasingly large private sector provides care to those who are privately insured, foreign patients, or public patients who are able to afford what often amount to very large out-of-pocket payments above the levels provided by government subsidies.

    (A second system, as could be done with any universal payer system).

    Approximately 70-80% of Singaporeans obtain their medical care within the public health system. Overall government spending on healthcare amounts to only 3-4% of annual GDP, partly because government expenditure on healthcare in the private system is extremely low.

    (Also something that could happen with any single payer system.)

    Healthcare in Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This article suggests the elderly are presenting same problems for them as for us:

    Healthcare For The Elderly: Can And Should We Do More?
    Also from your source "Singapore has "one of the most successful healthcare systems in the world, in terms of both efficiency in financing and the results achieved in community health outcomes," according to an analysis by global consulting firm Watson Wyatt.[3] The government regularly adjusts policies to actively regulate "the supply and prices of healthcare services in the country" in an attempt to keep costs in check. However, for the most part the government does not directly regulate the costs of private medical care. These costs are largely subject to market forces, and vary enormously within the private sector, depending on the medical specialty and service provided."

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