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Thread: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    I have seen no evidence that premiums are going to skyrocket unless you rely on the sound bites from the right.
    Not mention they were skyrocketing before reform. If they go up, one would have to question why as there is little reason for premiums to go up. There is a fee aspect that must be dealt with, but that is not premiums. And will likely be handled outside of premiums.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    How about coming to the table and wanting to work, not block?
    Think you mised the last two sentences of my post.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No one s stealing from you. That's a sad and rather cheap debate tactic. And the money the government would subsidize for savings would also come from you, as does the money that makes up for those paying right now.
    If I'm paying $4,000 for $1,000 worth of service, and you get to pay $12,000 for $20,000 worth of service; that is theft and a moral hazard. You have absolutely no incentive to minimize your health risk, because any additional healthcare you consume is dispersed throughout the system.

    That's largely fine. We subsidize things all the time. I am merely offering a template where the subsidy will not result in moral hazards and shifting of risk. Under a savings plan, it is still to the benefit of the individual to maximize their personal well being in order to minimize their costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, the only way to force is to ban or outlaw. No one is forced not to use anything.
    If you are reducing the amount that someone can contribute to said account, then that means that the account will meet less of said person's healthcare needs. Forcing them to buy insurance. Yes, that is forcing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, your trying to deal in absolutes; I'm not. Many are not able to get adequate care. That's a fact.
    Its not an ambiguous fact with many possible solutions to fixing it. No one said the current system is perfect. But, the strengths of our system outweigh the weaknesses. We can make minor fixes here and there to try and maximize the number of people who can obtain health insurance, reduce costs, and improve quality. But it takes a scalpel, not a hacksaw.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And you want illegals to get care. You have no idea what they might bring with them that could be communicable. Our leaders have shown no will to stop illegal immigration despite enough was on the books to do so. So, you either adjust to the reality, or change leadership. But I warn you that there s a reason nothing's been done, and new leadership won't likely change it.
    No I don't, because that just gives them even more incentive to come here. You're right, that's because we don't have the balls to stand up for our laws and our citizens. Instead, we let this become a political wedge, when we should have been taking care of the issue.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Carleen View Post
    I have seen no evidence that premiums are going to skyrocket unless you rely on the sound bites from the right.
    "We are very concerned about what will happen if essentially there is so much rate shock for young people that they're bound not to purchase (health insurance) at all," California Insurance Commissioner Dave Jones.
    EconomicPolicyJournal.com: CBO: Up to 20 Million Could Be Pushed Off Employer Health Insurance Because of Obamacare

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Think you mised the last two sentences of my post.
    Didn't miss it. But t Anything I disagree with.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm not convinced. If we used the money we spend extra right now, moved it to a universal payer system, allowing those who can to buy more, we'd spend less, much less, and get more.
    You live in a delusional fantasy if you think that the government can provide health insurance for all Americans for a cheaper price then it provides it for half of Americans already. We already spend more money on public run healthcare then any other country in the world.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    If I'm paying $4,000 for $1,000 worth of service, and you get to pay $12,000 for $20,000 worth of service; that is theft and a moral hazard. You have absolutely no incentive to minimize your health risk, because any additional healthcare you consume is dispersed throughout the system.

    That's largely fine. We subsidize things all the time. I am merely offering a template where the subsidy will not result in moral hazards and shifting of risk. Under a savings plan, it is still to the benefit of the individual to maximize their personal well being in order to minimize their costs.


    If you are reducing the amount that someone can contribute to said account, then that means that the account will meet less of said person's healthcare needs. Forcing them to buy insurance. Yes, that is forcing.


    Its not an ambiguous fact with many possible solutions to fixing it. No one said the current system is perfect. But, the strengths of our system outweigh the weaknesses. We can make minor fixes here and there to try and maximize the number of people who can obtain health insurance, reduce costs, and improve quality. But it takes a scalpel, not a hacksaw.



    No I don't, because that just gives them even more incentive to come here. You're right, that's because we don't have the balls to stand up for our laws and our citizens. Instead, we let this become a political wedge, when we should have been taking care of the issue.
    1st you pay for it either way. You're paying for it right now without reform. But it's not stealing. Now or later. Live long enough, and you will cost more than you're paying. It equals out. And a savings plan has more limitations, and not likely to cover anyone needing anything major. We will still need more for some and less for others.

    You might ask why he limitations. Don't leap to forcing. Having used these programs and lost on them, I think they may be other reasons. I'll look later if you're not inclined to.

    I don't think the strengths out weight the weaknesses. We cost more and get less access. The market leads to decreasing doctors, as it maximizes profit (see AMA).

    Back later

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    1st you pay for it either way. You're paying for it right now without reform. But it's not stealing. Now or later. Live long enough, and you will cost more than you're paying. It equals out. And a savings plan has more limitations, and not likely to cover anyone needing anything major. We will still need more for some and less for others.

    You might ask why he limitations. Don't leap to forcing. Having used these programs and lost on them, I think they may be other reasons. I'll look later if you're not inclined to.

    I don't think the strengths out weight the weaknesses. We cost more and get less access. The market leads to decreasing doctors, as it maximizes profit (see AMA).

    Back later
    No it doesn't equal out. That's my point. If I live healthy, I'm going to have less healthcare costs every step of the way then someone who doesn't. Asking me to pay for them isn't equaling out. It's a moral hazard.

    Look up the healthcare system of Singapore. They use health savings accounts, and the government helps subsidize the costs of emergency procedures. Its a system that works and keeps costs down.

    Where do you get this idea? Americans have shorter waiting periods, better technology, more advanced treatments, and better health outcomes for heart disease, stroke, hypertension, diabetes, and nearly every category of cancer. Healthcare access isn't reducible to a single denominator on how many people are insured. In many other countries, everyone has health insurance, they just don't get the same level of treatment as they get here.

    Well you certainly don't want too many doctors. Some supply control is absolutely necessary to control for quality. Besides, doctors make up less then 10% of all healthcare costs. As a % of healthcare costs, its actually amoung the lowest in the world. U.S Physician Compensation Among Lowest of Western Nations, Survey Finds

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It might once Obama's not in office any more. After all, it holds a lot of republican ideas.
    Lol! I love this idea of doing things people hate, but will love later. The best part is that the people that say it love to spout that the government only does what the people want and that the US is for the people, by the people. I can't imagine how they can say the country is for the people, by the people and then support the passing laws without public support. You guys can start being consistent whenever you please.

    Btw, ideas put out by think tank represent the think tank and no one else.

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    Re: Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Not a bad thought from the President. It was one of the common talking points against the bill, was that once it starts it won't stop. Those in support of the bill thought that the good would dramatically outweigh whatever problems would surface, and opposition to the bill would gradually diminish.
    It would have been a better thought if it didn't depend on the idea that giving away free things or benefits to the people naturally leading to greater public support over time of very bad or unpopular actions. He of course applied this rather obvious observation that allows democrats to do immoral things and applied to forced commerce. That is probably because he only has two brain cells though.

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