Page 8 of 23 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 227

Thread: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

  1. #71
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Here is the deal, profits made overseas are not taxable unless they are brought into the US in some way. If Apple maintains those funds in overseas subsidiaries, they are only subject to taxes within the country they are made in or sold in. Thats the law. Thats ALWAYS been the law.
    And that, coupled with the obvious result that unless Apple needs the cash it will sit outside the US forever, is a perfect illustration of how the US system's attempt to extract more from its resident companies actually harms the US economy.

    I know socialists of various stripes won't accept this, but the answer here is to back off, not to criminalize. At some point you will only succeed in causing these corporations to flee your jurisdiction. And unless you plan on taxing all foreign direct investment (which would be suicide), there will be nothing you can do when Apple patriates its foreign earnings in Canada or ireland or wherever else it decides to move its country of residence.

    And you folks (not the poster) can bitch to the moon about unfairness and evilness and ungratefulness until the cows come home, but you have it ass-backwards. YOU are the ones who are ungrateful and evil in all this, seeking to confiscate wealth generated abroad from people who earned it. You will get a piece of the pie if you allow it back and then it is dividended out to shareholders, but that isn't enough - you want the share of corporate taxes too. So not only do you deserve nothing, if you push it you deserve to see Apple and the other multinationals pull up roots and settle somewhere else. There are tons of countries that would be glad to have them, and not so many of your fellow Americans are as willing to "punish" them for their "disloyalty" in refusing to give you their money that it could change the economics of such a move.

  2. #72
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Last Seen
    09-18-16 @ 03:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,029

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    And here's the issue. You are taxing income earned in foreign jurisdictions, where the company is already subject to foreign taxes. It is simply confiscatory and a major contributing factor to failure of the US economy to perform as well as it should.

    And the reaction to making this "illegal" would be simple.

    Apple, welcome to Canada. Glad to have you aboard.

    US extraterritorial nonsense may be viewed as a "right" by Americans who like to each off foreign production and consumption, but it does nothing for you overall.

    This is just an illustration of that at play.
    Tax US corporation's global income. No foreign tax credit gameplaying. No spins off treated differently. Problem solved.

  3. #73
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Are you aware that as American citizens we are subject to global taxation by US law? So how can you support a corporation having greater rights than an individual?
    When the earnings are dividended out to US shareholders it is taxed.

    And from an industrial policy perspective, additional corporate taxes on foreign earnings is just retarded.

  4. #74
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Roads don't make a business successful, but without roads they wouldn't be successful. And it's more than just roads. It's a stable, safe environment to work in. Police protect the streets. Military protects the border. Schools make useful workers. The lights always turn on because there's an incredibly stable power grid and when it fails in a major way there's a major response. And the customers have reasonable assurance that whatever product they buy will be safe and work as advertised, because someone is checking up on that business from time to time.

    Nothing happens in a vacuum. It doesn't really matter whether or not you like the idea.
    Yes yes. And without poor people not pitchforking the rich in their homes, they wouldn't be alive, so the rich owe the poor all of their money.

    This argument was nonsense back in the election and it is nonsense today. The janitor that allows the restaurant to pass a safety inspectuion is not worth as much money as the world renound chef that puts people in the chairs night after night. Sure the business couldn't function without both of them, but that is not the way real life works, nor is it the way it ought to work, commerade.

  5. #75
    Discount Philosopher
    specklebang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Last Seen
    06-05-14 @ 08:26 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    11,524

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Why don't you explain this further what with retarded people trying to understand it.


    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    When the earnings are dividended out to US shareholders it is taxed.

    And from an industrial policy perspective, additional corporate taxes on foreign earnings is just retarded.

  6. #76
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    The laws are backwards. We tax the money they spend here and gift them the money the don't spend here. Seems ridiculous.

    How about no tax for what they make here and tax the overseas income? Wouldn't that make more sense?
    yes, if you wanted zero US-residernt multinational companies. But that would be economic suicide.

    What folks here do not seem to get is that the US operates in a competitive global marketplace for residency services. Yes, you are essentially selling value to multinational corporations. We see this most clearly with the tax incentives and inducements offered to various corproations to settle in one local area vs another, but it applies on a global level as well. Countries like Ireland get this most clearly, but so do we in Canada where reduced corproate taxes are well understood to help draw foreign investment and additional work opportunities. You guys in the US, with your ridiculous corproate tax rates plus this confiscatory tax imposed on Canadian and french and Chinese etc earnings of US corporations, where the same corporations would not have to pay taxes to the US govenrment if they had tax residency in, say, the Cayman Islands, is a huge disincentive for US businesses to invest abroad (since $1 in earnings after foreign taxes translates into less than $1 in distributable income) and for non-US businesses to move their headquarters to the US.

    And sure, you have a lot going for you which has allowed you to do well regardless. But (1) you would have done even better if you had implemented well designed policy to attract and retain businesses and (2) you can't rely on history forever. Other countries are continuing to increase their competitiveness, and you can't just sit back and rely on your laurels to convince companies to reside in the US instead of Canada or Singapore.

  7. #77
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    We should simply tax all global income of US corporations including any spin offs without credit for foreign taxation.

    That would force them to stop seeking out tax shelters and pay their fair share.
    sure it would.

    Or it would force them to pull a Depardieu and move headquarters to an jurisdiction that is happy to have them as a producive contributor to societal welfare rather than a permanent teet to be suckled on by the parasitic class.

    Think about it.

  8. #78
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Pssst: you can only pierce the veil if the corporation is in fact a veil -- i.e., a fraud because it's undercapitalized from the start.

    So now you're claiming you were only talking about fraudulent corps? Keep dancing.


    Well, you're certainly digging a deeper hole. Guess that's Progress for ya.

  9. #79
    Guru
    CJ 2.0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    3,557

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Tax US corporation's global income. No foreign tax credit gameplaying. No spins off treated differently. Problem solved.
    Except as a result you will have two kinds of corproations - companies that are resident in the US and do business only in the US, and non-US corporations that operate globally.

    Think about it. If I have a multinational that sources inputs and assembles product in Asia and then sells it around the world, why in hell would I choose to leave my company headquartered in the US such that I would pay an extra 20-30% in tax over and above what I already pay globally? Are you saying I'm stupid? That I "owe" it to the US to pay taxes even though my commerce has no real connection to the US? How in hell does that make any sense.

    What will happen is companies that do a preponderance of their business in the SU will stay, though they will become less competitive against foreign companies. Meanwhile, companies that do most of their business overseas will leave, particularly where manufacturing is also overseas. Headquarters will move. Plants and places of manufacture will move. If it is so important to maintain production close to the US they will move to Canada and Mexico, where goods can be imported into the US duty free.

    And the US economy will suffer.

    This really isn't rocket science.

  10. #80
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Last Seen
    09-18-16 @ 03:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    12,029

    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    sure it would.

    Or it would force them to pull a Depardieu and move headquarters to an jurisdiction that is happy to have them as a producive contributor to societal welfare rather than a permanent teet to be suckled on by the parasitic class.

    Think about it.
    If a corporation can move to a tax haven they already would have, so this isn't a real threat. Just rightwing rhetoric.

    There are reasons for staying in the US (a good court system, no corruption, police, etc). If Microsoft wants to move to Haiti, let them. Make room for more innovative corporations here. Besides, they are taxable for the business they do in the US in any case. So we wouldn't be losing anything.

Page 8 of 23 FirstFirst ... 67891018 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •