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Thread: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

  1. #161
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    Again. This is a talking point. Not an argument.

    Look, Steve Jobs ate vegetables. And what happened to him again? Oh yeah, he got cancer and died.

    Damned vegetables.
    Can't argue the merits of the policy. Got it.

    Meantime I can. Low corporate taxes produce basket cases like Ireland. And you want us to follow that road. Pathology? You're soaking in it.

    So it's permanent spite now? Force your companies to pay taxes in the US forever or permanently bar them from US markets?

    OK, so what do you do with an asset sale then? Sony picks up all of the assets of Columbia but leaves the corporate shell to die. Are you taxing Sony as a domestic now? It isn't and never was an American entity.

    See, companies don't do that now because of potential adverse tax implications, but you are leaning pretty heavily on the scales on that one.

    How about this. Columbia spins off its foreign business through an asset sale to a company with ownership identical to its current shareholders and sets up reciprocal long term supply agreements. So you have Columbia US which is American but the rest of the business has its own floated stock and no US business. Again, makes no sense in the current environemnt, but makes far mroe sense if you are proposing to try to extract billions from them every year.

    And again, what do you do with the Canadian car wash business that dips a toe into the Buffalo market? Or the ag company supplying you with fertilizer? Or blackberry or Samsung or H&M or Fair Trade Coffee importers? You have no answers because you prefer not to think these thigns through. You are trying to develop policy based on emotion and your grievances with those who are more successful than you, rather than with legitimate policy goals and a well-thought out understanding of how markets work.

    And the "analysis" is exactly what you would expect as a result.
    Again, you're simply being counterfactual. If companies can leave the US, then they already have. You act as if they've stayed here out of a sense of loyalty. That's sweet but not part of reality.

    Companies that remain in the US paying US taxes should be rewarded by making sure companies that leave pay higher taxes, or at least the same. It's really that simply. You keep talking about tax incentives but the most obvious one is staring you in the face: right now, this second Apple was better off taxwise by funnelling income to a Irish shell corp. So we punish that, increasing taxes and Apple, and thus rewarding companies that haven't engaged in this conduct. Indeed, we probably could lower corporate taxes in the US if we raised taxes on the corporations who shirk paying by foreign spin offs and shells.

  2. #162
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Government will always get paid. Don't matter if they got to kill your wife to make it happen; they have the guns and they get paid.
    I'm not married, so where are they going to find my wife? Btw, great job supporting the state.

    It's not that it's "broken", it's just aggregated to such levels as it can no longer be handled by private enterprise alone. Government invests in the base research, private industry takes over when there is an engineerable product. It's nothing more than the realistic aggregation of human knowledge. And it's only going to grow, humanity never progressed through stagnation. As we grow and we become more and more complex, we are going to need the system and tools in place to support such a large, aggregate, technologically advanced society. Innate to the system; might as well get over it now.
    Not going to do that. Government does not have the authority to fund research and furthermore I do not agree with them funding any research. The market CAN handle it and while we might get smaller advancements that is something I'm ok with.

    Then give up your iPhone. But you won't. You won't give up the benefits you reap from having this aggregate system; you just don't want to pay for it. You want a free lunch. And I am unsympathetic should your theft ever be discovered and punished.
    Lol! What theft?


    The written contract does not. And I am telling you that what you say is at odds with what you claim you want. You do not want voluntary exchange because you will not give up anything that came from government funding. Welfare queen, take but not pay in. The entitled lot who think that everyone's work is theirs. It's pathetic.
    Yes, I will most likely avoid the tariff based system that I already said I support.


    You are most certainly asking for one. You want the benefits of what we've achieved without having to pay for the necessary pieces which brought that advancement. You want the free lunch. The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you can progress to being an actual libertarian.
    Actual libertarian? Hahaha.. This coming from the guy that wants to tax the value of land. Give me a ****ing break.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-22-13 at 09:36 PM.

  3. #163
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Pssst: international trade agreements allow capital to move to China, or Ireland for that matter.

    Why is it that conservatives just don't understand the basics?
    What are you talking about now?

  4. #164
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Pssst: international trade agreements allow capital to move to China, or Ireland for that matter.

    Why is it that conservatives just don't understand the basics?
    Perhaps I want the authority of the state to end at it's borders??

  5. #165
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Uh, what?
    You tell me. How is someone supposed to get away from you?

  6. #166
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Perhaps I want the authority of the state to end at it's borders??
    So you're against the international treaties that allowed Apple to send capital to Ireland?

    You need to think this through. Capital doesn't go overseas in suitcases -- it's protected by international treaties.

  7. #167
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    So you're against the international treaties that allowed Apple to send capital to Ireland?

    You need to think this through. Capital doesn't go overseas in suitcases -- it's protected by international treaties.
    Government does not need to assist in the movement of capital.

  8. #168
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You tell me. How is someone supposed to get away from you?
    By posting rational, well thought out arguments. Otherwise I'm there to point out the opposite. Given that, you can't escape.

  9. #169
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Government does not need to assist in the movement of capital.
    Jesus man, your knowledge of how capital goes overseas is truly profoundly nugatory. You have a future as Rand Paul's economic advisor.

  10. #170
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Jesus man, your knowledge of how capital goes overseas is truly profoundly nugatory. You have a future as Rand Paul's economic advisor.
    How is it hard to understand the government is not needed for that??

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