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Thread: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

  1. #151
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Then do something. If you just sit there and vote and do nothing to change the system, I'll have no sympathy for you when they throw you in jail for not paying up.
    Since I'm following the law and avoiding taxes using their system I wish you luck on that.

    No you don't. You said so in your last post. You'll give nothing up, and you'll hide all your money regardless of the facts that government funding is what is pushing tech and advancement. That science and engineering has evolved to such a level that the money*time margin is not sustainable by private enterprise for base research. You think Verizon funded research into IC? Into cell tech? No, once that tech became engineerable, then they took over; they couldn't do it before. The days of Bell Labs are over, son. Medical science? Same thing. Pretty much all our tech, all our modern conveniences; more and more the base knowledge necessary to engineer such solutions is not obtainable through market.
    If the only entity that can create anything is the government then we have serious problems on our hands that need resolved ASAP. I see no reason any of us should hand money over to support something that is clearly broken and needed repaired.

    You require something much more stable and able to source massive amounts of money that is required to advance further; government. But you don't want to pay for that. You "paid" for your phone, but you paid a company for production+profit costs. Taxes are what funded the research that ultimately bore the fruit of that tech. But you don't want to pay that. Somehow you feel entitled to the work of others. You'll give up nothing and take everything.
    No, I do not want to pay the government to be the source of all technology. You nailed it. I want that connection destroyed and not strengthened.


    I've seen your sort before, you're a welfare queen. You don't want "voluntary" because you cannot live by the consequences of such. You want and you want and you want, but you don't wish to pay. That's the bottom line. You will not give up anything for your "voluntary" society, thinking instead that you deserve and are entitled to the sweat of other's brows.
    I told you what I want. I want a system that offers some sort of essence of voluntary exchange. The social contract demands it.

    I said it before, I'll say it again. There's no such thing as a free lunch.
    and I'm not asking for one.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-22-13 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #152
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    That is something that I haven't exactly thought of. But at the same time, that is exactly what we are seeing in this country anyways. Countries like Apple moving money overseas and not paying taxes on it. Also, you have to consider, that foreign capital may withdraw earnings over a period of time,but it still represents an investment in domestic companies. Also, I get the hunch that the US would have less of a problem with foreign capital overwhelming domestic capital because most of the world's largest corporations are American anyways. I suppose the easiest fix here is to just reduce the corporate tax to a level like say 20% where companies like Apple have far less incentive to move money offshore. I agree with most of the rest of your points.
    You actually don't need to do much, but you should drop this tax on foreign earned income. This would allow the immediate patriation of the Apple money and the other billions held by other US corporations abroad.

    After that, make sure your corporate tax rates are not causing a bleed of businesses to other jurisdictions and yes, you will be fine. The US is strong enough it doesn't need to compete to attract businesses through aggresively low corporate tax rates, but you are not strong enough to ignore what the baseline is in other competitive jurisdictions.

  3. #153
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Now why would they hire cheap labor overseas? Gee, I wonder.
    Because we incentivize it rather than make it unprofitable? Nothing like making big profits in sweatshop nations like Bangladesh that ban unions and kill 100s of workers in factory disasters.

    Doesn't it make you proud!

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    You actually don't need to do much, but you should drop this tax on foreign earned income. This would allow the immediate patriation of the Apple money and the other billions held by other US corporations abroad.

    After that, make sure your corporate tax rates are not causing a bleed of businesses to other jurisdictions and yes, you will be fine. The US is strong enough it doesn't need to compete to attract businesses through aggresively low corporate tax rates, but you are not strong enough to ignore what the baseline is in other competitive jurisdictions.
    The race to the bottom. Just like Ireland. And what happened to Ireland again? Oh, yeah, it went bankrupt!

    Here's a better concept. Companies want to be in the US (or they wouldn't be here). Punish those the go overseas to avoid taxes by taxing them globally, disregarding spin offs and subsidiaries and tarifing products from tax haven refugee corps. Then the companies that remain here will have a competive edge and will prosper, instead of vice versa.

  5. #155
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Because we incentivize it rather than make it unprofitable? Nothing like making big profits in sweatshop nations like Bangladesh that ban unions and kill 100s of workers in factory disasters.

    Doesn't it make you proud!
    Lol! So the government should trap people? Yeah, that is my idea of a good time.

  6. #156
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    The race to the bottom. Just like Ireland. And what happened to Ireland again? Oh, yeah, it went bankrupt!

    Here's a better concept. Companies want to be in the US (or they wouldn't be here). Punish those the go overseas to avoid taxes by taxing them globally, disregarding spin offs and subsidiaries and tarifing products from tax haven refugee corps. Then the companies that remain here will have a competive edge and will prosper, instead of vice versa.
    Yeah, what we really need to do is make the US have arms that reach around the world. That is a brilliant idea. You should stop coming up with ideas.

  7. #157
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Since I'm following the law and avoiding taxes using their system I wish you luck on that.
    Government will always get paid. Don't matter if they got to kill your wife to make it happen; they have the guns and they get paid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If the only entity that can create anything is the government then we have serious problems on our hands that need resolved ASAP. I see no reason any of us should hand money over to support something that is clearly broken and needed repaired.
    It's not that it's "broken", it's just aggregated to such levels as it can no longer be handled by private enterprise alone. Government invests in the base research, private industry takes over when there is an engineerable product. It's nothing more than the realistic aggregation of human knowledge. And it's only going to grow, humanity never progressed through stagnation. As we grow and we become more and more complex, we are going to need the system and tools in place to support such a large, aggregate, technologically advanced society. Innate to the system; might as well get over it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, I do not want to pay the government to be the source of all technology. You nailed it. I want that connection destroyed and not strengthened.
    Then give up your iPhone. But you won't. You won't give up the benefits you reap from having this aggregate system; you just don't want to pay for it. You want a free lunch. And I am unsympathetic should your theft ever be discovered and punished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I told you what I want. I want a system that offers some sort of essence of voluntary exchange. The social contract demands it.
    The written contract does not. And I am telling you that what you say is at odds with what you claim you want. You do not want voluntary exchange because you will not give up anything that came from government funding. Welfare queen, take but not pay in. The entitled lot who think that everyone's work is theirs. It's pathetic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    and I'm not asking for one.
    You are most certainly asking for one. You want the benefits of what we've achieved without having to pay for the necessary pieces which brought that advancement. You want the free lunch. The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you can progress to being an actual libertarian.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #158
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    The race to the bottom. Just like Ireland. And what happened to Ireland again? Oh, yeah, it went bankrupt!
    Again. This is a talking point. Not an argument.

    Look, Steve Jobs ate vegetables. And what happened to him again? Oh yeah, he got cancer and died.

    Damned vegetables.

    Here's a better concept. Companies want to be in the US (or they wouldn't be here). Punish those the go overseas to avoid taxes by taxing them globally, disregarding spin offs and subsidiaries and tarifing products from tax haven refugee corps. Then the companies that remain here will have a competive edge and will prosper, instead of vice versa.
    So it's permanent spite now? Force your companies to pay taxes in the US forever or permanently bar them from US markets?

    OK, so what do you do with an asset sale then? Sony picks up all of the assets of Columbia but leaves the corporate shell to die. Are you taxing Sony as a domestic now? It isn't and never was an American entity.

    See, companies don't do that now because of potential adverse tax implications, but you are leaning pretty heavily on the scales on that one.

    How about this. Columbia spins off its foreign business through an asset sale to a company with ownership identical to its current shareholders and sets up reciprocal long term supply agreements. So you have Columbia US which is American but the rest of the business has its own floated stock and no US business. Again, makes no sense in the current environemnt, but makes far mroe sense if you are proposing to try to extract billions from them every year.

    And again, what do you do with the Canadian car wash business that dips a toe into the Buffalo market? Or the ag company supplying you with fertilizer? Or blackberry or Samsung or H&M or Fair Trade Coffee importers or the foreign producer of hipster beard and moustache-care products? You have no answers because you prefer not to think these things through. You are trying to develop policy based on emotion and your grievances with those who are more successful than you, rather than with legitimate policy goals and a well-thought out understanding of how markets work.

    And the "analysis" is exactly what you would expect as a result.
    Last edited by CJ 2.0; 05-22-13 at 09:24 PM.

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Lol! So the government should trap people? Yeah, that is my idea of a good time.
    Uh, what?

  10. #160
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yeah, what we really need to do is make the US have arms that reach around the world. That is a brilliant idea. You should stop coming up with ideas.
    Pssst: international trade agreements allow capital to move to China, or Ireland for that matter.

    Why is it that conservatives just don't understand the basics?

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