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Thread: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

  1. #121
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Actually Ireland's rock bottom low corporate rates were cited as a major contributor to their collapse, by the very EU/IMF that bailed them out.

    Battered Ireland Clings to Its Low Taxes - Businessweek

    Bailout

    You keep not getting your facts right.
    Yeah, no. The Irishpreferred not to shoot themselves in the foot by eviscerating the one advantage they have in attracting businesses. this is not why their economy collapsed and no one is saying that it is. What you have here are EU folks who don't like competing with ireland on tax rates and so are trying to extract higher taxes as a quid pro quo for a bailout.

    Perhaps less distortion and more honest discussion next time?

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You make people not feel like a victim by treating government as anything else in the market. You do not protect property rights or liberty any other way.
    This is a non-answer. First off, government cannot be treated as market force because government is not business....it's government. But this is simple, yes? How do you make people not feel like a victim for paying for the things we all use and the technology we enjoy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Btw, I never asked for all this stuff the government does. Why would I care to pay for all that crap?
    If you ain't revolting, you're submitting.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    Yeah, no. The Irishpreferred not to shoot themselves in the foot by eviscerating the one advantage they have in attracting businesses. this is not why their economy collapsed and no one is saying that it is. What you have here are EU folks who don't like competing with ireland on tax rates and so are trying to extract higher taxes as a quid pro quo for a bailout.

    Perhaps less distortion and more honest discussion next time?
    You've changed the subject and hoped nobody would notice.

    The IMF/EU -- the very people who bailed them out -- cited their low corporate tax as one of the problems. Go figure. Who should we believe -- the bankrupt, or the guys who loan the bankrupt billions of dollars to save his behind.

  4. #124
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    You've changed the subject and hoped nobody would notice.

    The IMF/EU -- the very people who bailed them out -- cited their low corporate tax as one of the problems. Go figure. Who should we believe -- the bankrupt, or the guys who loan the bankrupt billions of dollars to save his behind.
    They cited it as a contributor to their fiscal imabalance, not to the cause of the crisis in the first place. You are confusing things. Whether Ireland is right or not to prefer a bailout rather than upping their rates and whether the EU/IMF is right to bankroll rather than require Ireland to deal with the issue on their own is an EU policy matter and I see both sides. But to pretend that ireland was in crisis not because of the global financial crisis or their banks but because of their low corporate tax rates is pretty disingenous, even moreso because of the arguments to authority you are tryign to leverage from.

    Also, I like that your second article presumes to argue from authority but the best it can do is cite to some kleptocratic socialist European People’s Party reps in the EU parliament.

    Fundamentally they and various other European nations don't like the Irish approach because it WORKS in attracting businesses to set up shop in Ireland rather than in their jurisdictions. You can pretend this is them domenstrating a causal relationship between the low tax rates and the crisis all you like, but it's a pretty silly argument and the cites you provide are even sillier as support.


    Would also note you diverting from the thread issue, which is that the left doesn't like companies availaing themselves of their legal rights to hold onto money that they rightfully and lawfully earned, and would prefer that the law be changed to further confiscate money from productive contributors to the US economy in respect of economic activity that has nothing to do with the US and which is already taxed by the jurisdiction in which the activity takes place.
    Last edited by CJ 2.0; 05-22-13 at 07:56 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why? Because they are avoiding taxes.
    Its a nonsensical tax anyways. Why do we need to collect corporate taxes? We already can tax the people in the corporation at the income level. Its stupid.

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Actually Ireland's rock bottom low corporate rates were cited as a major contributor to their collapse, by the very EU/IMF that bailed them out.

    Battered Ireland Clings to Its Low Taxes - Businessweek

    Bailout

    You keep not getting your facts right.
    Do you have any information that isn't 3 years old?

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Its a nonsensical tax anyways. Why do we need to collect corporate taxes? We already can tax the people in the corporation at the income level. Its stupid.
    Why does any individual have to pay both income and property tax?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Its a nonsensical tax anyways. Why do we need to collect corporate taxes? We already can tax the people in the corporation at the income level. Its stupid.
    Don't think I agree and I am by no means a leftist on economic issues. The problem you have is the same problem we had in Canada a while ago with income funds. They essentially were companies with no taxes, but the income flowed through the the owners of units to pay tax on directly.

    Works decently well if the ownership of these funds are not in tax deferring vehicles (like IRAs) and they are ALL owned by domestic residents, but as soon as foreign owners pick up big peices of these interests you have massive outflows of earnings that are never taxed win the country where they are earned.

    What you can do, though, is tax dividends at less than full income, such that corporate taxes plus dividend taxes translate into approximately what the individual would have paid had the income been earned as partnership income or from wages. Part paid by the firm, part paid by the individual. Some tax determent possible, some reduction in overall govenrment intake, but overall seems to work pretty well. But the corporate rate is too high in the US, while this ridiculous extra-territorial extension of the tax system to patriated forteign earnings is a massive deterrent to inflows of capital earned abroad.

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Yep, that's what we need to do to make tax avoidance impossible. Then the corps may as well stay in the US. They won't benefit from spin offs and foreign divisions.

    Again, you're missign the point. Corps that can leave have left. Corps that have spun off into tax havens have. They always optimize their tax avoidance. So we're punishing them, and that benefits the corps that haven't left.
    Yeah cause who the **** needs those evil corporations located in the US employing people, let em move their headquarters!



    Forget shooting yourself in the foot this idea is shooting yourself in the nuts.

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    Re: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    This is a non-answer. First off, government cannot be treated as market force because government is not business....it's government. But this is simple, yes? How do you make people not feel like a victim for paying for the things we all use and the technology we enjoy?
    Again, I never asked them to provide any services outside of police and courts. I never asked that they do anything towards the internet, electricity, water, welfare, roads, etc. That is all their busy work that I would like it very much if the private sector picked it up completely. As for taxes, I support tariffs, but beyond that I really don't support anything they are doing right now.

    If you ain't revolting, you're submitting.
    I'm not submitting if I'm hiding my money.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-22-13 at 08:15 PM.

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