Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 73

Thread: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

  1. #41
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Okay, if you want to argue the technical point, that's great -- my point is that the PATRIOT Act represents a vast expansion of government authority and a shrinkage of personal liberty, so if you're okay with that then you shouldn't be complaining about this.
    Actually no, it didn't. FISA already existed for a couple decades and we have no less rights under the PA than we did under FISA.

    Btw, if this isn't just some political overreach on the part of this admin, where are the historical precedences? Why did neither Woodward nor Bernstein get the same treatment?

  2. #42
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually no, it didn't. FISA already existed for a couple decades and we have no less rights under the PA than we did under FISA.
    I can point out one example where you are 100% wrong -- National Security Letters. There are many more, and they're not hard to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Btw, if this isn't just some political overreach on the part of this admin, where are the historical precedences?
    I'm sure there is plenty of precedent for the investigation of someone suspected of conspiring to acquire classified or otherwise sensitive government records.

    Being a reporter doesn't give the guy a special protection when it comes to breaking the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Why did neither Woodward nor Bernstein get the same treatment?
    I have no idea. Really, I don't, that was before my time and I haven't done the research. Were they brought sensitive data by someone who had access to it, or did they conspire with their source to receive it?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #43
    Shankmasta Killa
    TacticalEvilDan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Western NY and Geneva, CH
    Last Seen
    08-30-15 @ 04:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,444

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Then go argue that in some patriot act dead end thread.
    I'm not arguing it. What I've said about the PATRIOT Act is demonstrable fact. I brought it up here because I firmly believe that anybody who is cool with the PATRIOT Act shouldn't be upset by this investigation.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #44
    Sage
    clownboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    08-17-16 @ 10:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    26,087

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I can point out one example where you are 100% wrong -- National Security Letters. There are many more, and they're not hard to find.



    I'm sure there is plenty of precedent for the investigation of someone suspected of conspiring to acquire classified or otherwise sensitive government records.

    Being a reporter doesn't give the guy a special protection when it comes to breaking the law.



    I have no idea. Really, I don't, that was before my time and I haven't done the research. Were they brought sensitive data by someone who had access to it, or did they conspire with their source to receive it?
    Google Deep Throat (you may want to wiki that otherwise the results will be more than interesting ).

    We have no less rights under the National Security Letters provision than we had before the PA passed. The gag order provision was struck by the SCOTUS and all this info was available by FISA warrant before the PA. The PA is just a modernization of the already existing FISA adding in provisions specific to foreign terrorism.

  5. #45
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 04:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,040

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I'm not arguing it. What I've said about the PATRIOT Act is demonstrable fact. I brought it up here because I firmly believe that anybody who is cool with the PATRIOT Act shouldn't be upset by this investigation.
    And I explained how its not. Are we done?

  6. #46
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 04:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,040

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Speaking of the DOJ, I keep hearing from the White House that it would improper for them to be informed on what the DOJ is doing, who its investigating and why. So I went and reread the constitution. I know. People just don't do that.

    Art 2 Section. 2.

    The President...may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices...
    Which sure sounds like he not only has the power, but the founders intended him to do so. The DOJ is an executive dept. The AG is the principle officer. The President is supposed to be making sure the law is executed, that the officers are doing their jobs. So why isn't Obama informed on the DOJ investigating reporters, why isn't he informed on the IG investigating the IRS? Who is captaining the ship exactly?

  7. #47
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,488

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Should it be illegal for the press to seek classified info from the govt?
    The First Amendment was not written so the press could compromise our national security. There was a journalist who tagged along for the duration of the Manhattan Project and he didn't run around blabbing classified information. These days, journalists don't have those ethics and the major media outlets, in their ratings race, don't care. We've wound up with morons like Geraldo Rivera, who was broadcasting our troop locations and movements during the invasion of Iraq. It IS legal for the press to seek classified information; its called a Freedom of Information Act Request. It should not be, and I doubt it is, legal for the press to obtain it by encouraging or coercing others to commit a Federal crime; that constitutes a conspiracy to commit a crime.

  8. #48
    Sage
    Taylor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    US
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,170

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    It should not be, and I doubt it is, legal for the press to obtain it by encouraging or coercing others to commit a Federal crime; that constitutes a conspiracy to commit a crime.
    More like a conspiracy to commit journalism - Jake Tapper. On something like the Manhattan project it is clearly illlegal and there are laws that specifically address nuclear technology, identity of covert agents, cryptography, and other extremely sensitive matters. By and large though, it has never been illegal for reporters to seek classified information.

  9. #49
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Republic of Florida
    Last Seen
    12-15-17 @ 04:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    14,040

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The First Amendment was not written so the press could compromise our national security. There was a journalist who tagged along for the duration of the Manhattan Project and he didn't run around blabbing classified information. These days, journalists don't have those ethics and the major media outlets, in their ratings race, don't care. We've wound up with morons like Geraldo Rivera, who was broadcasting our troop locations and movements during the invasion of Iraq. It IS legal for the press to seek classified information; its called a Freedom of Information Act Request. It should not be, and I doubt it is, legal for the press to obtain it by encouraging or coercing others to commit a Federal crime; that constitutes a conspiracy to commit a crime.
    Except that the freedom of the press is in the constitution, wheras there is nothing in the constitution allowing the govt to classify information, except indirectly.

  10. #50
    Sage


    Thoreau72's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:20 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    20,313

    Re: DOJ tracked movements, phone records of Fox News reporter

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Actually no, it didn't. FISA already existed for a couple decades and we have no less rights under the PA than we did under FISA.

    Btw, if this isn't just some political overreach on the part of this admin, where are the historical precedences? Why did neither Woodward nor Bernstein get the same treatment?
    We the People possess rights, and by way of the US Constitution, we the people GRANTED certain powers to the new government. As a lawyer friend of mine used to be fond of saying, "liberty grants power, NOT power grants liberty."

    So the point is that rights are one thing, power is another. They are not the same.

    The unpatriot act was a usurpation of power by the government. It "granted" itself the power to disregard the Fourth Amendment, and that is an illegitimate and illegal move. Yet you seem to be happy with it.

    FISA worked fine for years, but Dubya broke it, and happily admitted it in public.

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •