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US Government shuts down 3D gun manufacturer

Black Manta said:
Jerry I have allot of respect for you, but why on this issue are you pretending to be stupid? I have seen and agreed with far to many of your posts to fall for that.

A 3D printer can be used to print allot more than a 1 shot over glorified zip gun. As was mentioned before magazines, receivers and other low impact gun parts including silencers can all be printed on any 3D printer with plentiful cheap ABS media. That is just an example of the things available for gun enthusiasts. When you add in all the everyday items and even furniture, tools and much more the price of the printer is not really a consideration as only an idiot would pay $800 to $1600 just to print a zip gun. When printing pictures I guess you figure in the cost of the laser or inkjet printer? Of course not, same thing. You do however figure in the cost of consumables. In this case they are pretty cheap and readily available for any 3d printer, even the older models.

To be honest I could care less about the gun and had already planned to buy one to print magazines and a receiver for my next AK build. Now even after that I will continue to use it for other things like miniatures I use for modeling, wargaming and certain floating dive equipment. I can also use it to print plastic buckles etc that break on my gear rather than having to order them. I can use it for hundreds of other items that I can print cheaply. In a year or less it will have paid for itself in saving me money on other things.

So your argument here is nutty at best.
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I'm not someone who would otherwise own a 3D printer for other things. I have never had a reason to buy one. In fact, until the 3D gun story I wasn't aware of any private people owning these kinds of printers outside of a univercity or larg fabrication shop. In my field we don't print hardware and tools, we buy them. I've never even seen a 3D printer.

A 3D printer is not something carpenters already own, so yes I would have to buy one, and I have no use for it professionally. I have no idea what I would use a 3D printer for.

If you're to stupid to understand that I would have to buy a printer since I don't already own one, that's your problem, not mine.

And yes when considering an ink printer I consider what kinds of things I need to print. I'm not going to buy a high-end laser printer if I'm only making common documents. I also figure how many documents I need to make in a given month. I used to just save the file and have OfficeMax print them until the cost of gas was grater than the cost of the printer.

Not very many people already own 3D printers. Like any new tech, you should remember that fact. When DVDs first came out most people had to rent a player from the movie store. Same thing. So where's the 3D printer rental shop?
 
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HumanBeing said:
The blueprints are still available on Pirate Bay, and will stay there. Attempting to ban information is futile, whether people like it or not.
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I've got a copy, if anyone wants PM me your e-mail address.

Censorship doesn't work on the internet, ban a video and everyone will host it, ban a file and we'll all have it.

Jerry said:
I'm not someone who would otherwise own a 3D printer for other things. I have never had a reason to buy one. In fact, until the 3D gun story I wasn't aware of any private people owning these kinds of printers outside of a univercity or larg fabrication shop. In my field we don't print hardware and tools, we buy them. I've never even seen a 3D printer.


A 3D printer is not something carpenters already own, so yes I would have to buy one, and I have no use for it professionally. I have no idea what I would use a 3D printer for.
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My brother has one, got it when he opened up a store. He likes to invent things and the printer is great for prototypes.


Jerry said:
If you're to stupid to understand that I would have to buy a printer since I don't already own one, that's your problem, not mine.
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If you know an owner, you can just pay him for the raw materials and just push the button.
 
Lachean said:
If you know an owner, you can just pay him for the raw materials and just push the button.
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I don't think the Gun Control Act allows you to make guns for other people, only yourself. I think I would need to own/rent/lease the printer in some documented way in order to fall into that exception.

I'm not sure, though.
 
Use Tor and download from The Silk Road. You can buy DRUGS on The Silk Road, and the government has done everything they possibly can to try and stop them but can't. There is simply no way to stop something once it's on the internet so long as people want it.
 
Jerry said:
I'm not someone who would otherwise own a 3D printer for other things. I have never had a reason to buy one. In fact, until the 3D gun story I wasn't aware of any private people owning these kinds of printers outside of a univercity or larg fabrication shop. In my field we don't print hardware and tools, we buy them. I've never even seen a 3D printer.

A 3D printer is not something carpenters already own, so yes I would have to buy one, and I have no use for it professionally. I have no idea what I would use a 3D printer for.

If you're to stupid to understand that I would have to buy a printer since I don't already own one, that's your problem, not mine.

And yes when considering an ink printer I consider what kinds of things I need to print. I'm not going to buy a high-end laser printer if I'm only making common documents. I also figure how many documents I need to make in a given month. I used to just save the file and have OfficeMax print them until the cost of gas was grater than the cost of the printer.

Not very many people already own 3D printers. Like any new tech, you should remember that fact. When DVDs first came out most people had to rent a player from the movie store. Same thing. So where's the 3D printer rental shop?
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You keep intentionally missing the point. You're either trolling, or genuinely incapable of seeing past about 1 month in the future. No one here has even remotely claimed that the 3D printed gun was practical today. All we've said is that 3D printing technology is going to catch on big, and will see massive leaps in performance in the near future.

It will be a common household product. No one gives a **** about you making up ridiculous numbers in the thousands of dollars for you to try to prove your point.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You keep intentionally missing the point. You're either trolling, or genuinely incapable of seeing past about 1 month in the future. No one here has even remotely claimed that the 3D printed gun was practical today. All we've said is that 3D printing technology is going to catch on big, and will see massive leaps in performance in the near future.

It will be a common household product. No one gives a **** about you making up ridiculous numbers in the thousands of dollars for you to try to prove your point.
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You have no reason to believe 3D tech will catch on. If you had a reason, you would have stated it by now. You're just having a geek's tantrum.

Grow up.
 
Jerry said:
I'm not someone who would otherwise own a 3D printer for other things. I have never had a reason to buy one. In fact, until the 3D gun story I wasn't aware of any private people owning these kinds of printers outside of a univercity or larg fabrication shop. In my field we don't print hardware and tools, we buy them. I've never even seen a 3D printer.

A 3D printer is not something carpenters already own, so yes I would have to buy one, and I have no use for it professionally. I have no idea what I would use a 3D printer for.
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This is not about "you" it's about general use of a technology.

Jerry said:
If you're to stupid to understand that I would have to buy a printer since I don't already own one, that's your problem, not mine.
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Resorting to ad hominems makes your argument no less irrelevant. Again you are trying to say somehow your needs represent everyones when you are more the exception than the rule.

Jerry said:
And yes when considering an ink printer I consider what kinds of things I need to print. I'm not going to buy a high-end laser printer if I'm only making common documents. I also figure how many documents I need to make in a given month. I used to just save the file and have OfficeMax print them until the cost of gas was grater than the cost of the printer.
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No one is suggesting this.

Jerry said:
Not very many people already own 3D printers. Like any new tech, you should remember that fact. When DVDs first came out most people had to rent a player from the movie store. Same thing. So where's the 3D printer rental shop?
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This fact has nothing to do with the argument as presented. :roll:
 
I think they'll get down to the $200-$300 range for consumers. There are plenty of uses around the home for them, and if nothing else the craft type folks will buy them from HSN. You might need to step up for a "pro" model to print guns and such, but the end price will come down there as well.
 
Jerry said:
I don't think the Gun Control Act allows you to make guns for other people, only yourself. I think I would need to own/rent/lease the printer in some documented way in order to fall into that exception.

I'm not sure, though.
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That's why I said YOU push the button. You can make your own gun in another's machine shop without renting it so long as you can legally own guns and aren't selling it, the only time you need special permission (from the ATF) is if you're making an NFA item.

Disclaimer: Accountant, not a lawyer, all research done on internet.

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atf.gov said:
With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is being made for a Federal or State agency.
[18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r), 26 U.S.C. 5822, 27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105]
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I'm fairly certain it could be done legally very easily.

Example: I have a printer, we make a contract saying that I am selling it to you for $1 and that I reserve the right to buy it back anytime within 3 days. All it needs is some brotherly love and cooperation ;)
 
Black Manta said:
This is not about "you" it's about general use of a technology.
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You think I'm the only person who doesn't own a 3D printer?

Black Manta said:
Again you are trying to say somehow your needs represent everyones when you are more the exception than the rule.
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You're making claims without evidence. You've been hanging around heymarket for to long.

Black Manta said:
This fact has nothing to do with the argument as presented.
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The 3D gun will not revolutionize Gun Control laws precisely because 3D tech in general hasn't caught on yet. The 3D gun will not revolutionize Gun Control laws precisely because 3D tech is still cost prohibitive to the average person today; just like every new tech is, from plasma TVs to DVD players and as someone mentioned earlier even cars. You may as well be selling iPhone apps in the 90s.
 
Lachean said:
Disclaimer: Accountant, not a lawyer, all research done on internet.
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I must be the only person who already assumes this about everything anyone says, ever, unles proven otherwise. Do you honestly think the cops are going to arrest you over anything you say on the internet? Is there a another damn forum rule I'm not aware of (which frankly wouldn't surprise me).
 
Jerry said:
You have no reason to believe 3D tech will catch on. If you had a reason, you would have stated it by now. You're just having a geek's tantrum.

Grow up.
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People have been giving you reasons why it'll catch on and why it's so popular for pages. I guess you're just having a whatever-the-hell-you-are tantrum.
 
Jerry said:
Like what, exactly?
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3D busts of your children
3D representations of pictures
bookends
figurines
all sorts of crafts projects
airplane, train, car models
keyholders
somebody will make all their furniture that way (ala the pizza box sofa)
make your own pet rock
children's puzzles

Really the list is endless. Probably containing no vital items, but who knows what folks will come up with.
 
obvious Child said:
About one to two shots. And it's apparently very inaccurate. Also, apparently it's not the barrel though, the inherent stress that discharge forces upon the receivers is what is causing plastic firearms, even ABS ones to fail.

Honestly, firing a gun where its upper receiver is made of ABS plastic scares me. And given their early tests, it scared them too.
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That would of course depend upon the type and characteristics of the plastic. Any plastics that are able to molded by a 3d printer probably will never meet stress and heat requirements to be actually used as a firearm. However, they would work quite well for the purpose of creating molds for forming other materials.
 
Sorry I hadn't read some of this discussion more thoroughly before. It sounds like some of you may not have heard of RepRap. Current versions of RepRap can't print the gun because it doesn't print at a high enough density, but I hear there are people working on fixing that.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Main_Page

Enjoy ;)
 
clownboy said:
3D busts of your children
3D representations of pictures
bookends
figurines
all sorts of crafts projects
airplane, train, car models
keyholders
somebody will make all their furniture that way (ala the pizza box sofa)
make your own pet rock
children's puzzles
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That's all dollar-store bull****. Do you have any real examples or are you just going to keep ****ing around?

How about a sturdy framing hammer? You may be surprised how customized carpenters like those to be. Or how about other construction tools. How about car parts. Working computer parts. Anything useful.

Cabinets! If I could print custom cabinets, that alone would justify the cost.
 
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Jerry said:
I must be the only person who already assumes this about everything anyone says, ever, unles proven otherwise. Do you honestly think the cops are going to arrest you over anything you say on the internet? Is there a another damn forum rule I'm not aware of (which frankly wouldn't surprise me).
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No, not at all. I'm more concerned with people depending on something they read on the internet concerning their rights in a court of law.

As an accountant there are many opinions, especially tax opinions, which are correct in the case they are being given to but not in others. For example legally, an IRS judgement on an issue can not be used as legal precedent for someone else. You cannot say to them "my friend in the exact same circumstance did the same thing and you said it was fine" because it will not fly. So I'm always careful when giving any kind of advice to disclaim it, because many people go all Wesley Snipes with what they read on the internet then get ****ed and I don't want any of that on my conscience.

Jerry said:
Not even once. Go be stupid somewhere else.
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I certainly believe 3D printing will catch on. Reduced costs is reason enough, no shipping/warehouse expense. Want a doorstop, print one at less than wholesale cost, but raw materials cost.

I don't expect it to be one in every home like the PC caught on, more like a few every middle class neighborhood. To the benefit of the neighbor who invested in one.
 
clownboy said:
I think they'll get down to the $200-$300 range for consumers. There are plenty of uses around the home for them, and if nothing else the craft type folks will buy them from HSN. You might need to step up for a "pro" model to print guns and such, but the end price will come down there as well.
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Since I'm into rebuilding/modifying automobiles. Such a device would be infinitely valuable for producing dash and other molded items/components. I currently have a need to completely redesign the interior of a Pontiac Fiero and want to make some modifications to the dash/console of a Caprice Wagon and a Chevelle coupe, while maybe not cheaper, a 3d printer would make it easier.

Maybe I should look up the cost of the printers and materials. While probably more expensive than high-density foam and fiberglass, the end product would be more consistent and probably much better. Not to mention that many applications of industrial, low friction ceramics I want to investigate and test. Such a device would greatly improve my ability to create accurate and consistent molds.

Now if someone would create and sell an affordable sintering furnace, of a useful size, I could really go to town on some of my ideas.
 
Lachean said:
I certainly believe 3D printing will catch on. Reduced costs is reason enough, no shipping/warehouse expense. Want a doorstop, print one at less than wholesale cost, but raw materials cost.

I don't expect it to be one in every home like the PC caught on, more like a few every middle class neighborhood. To the benefit of the neighbor who invested in one.
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I agree, one day 3D will catch on...we're already printing entire houses and living organs with it (something useful, unlike figurines :roll:).

One day 3D tech will be in every home, but that day is not today.

When someone announces that the new 3D printed gun will liberate individuals, they're wrong, because today only a few have a 3D printer. Because most people do not have the printer, most people are going to have to buy/rent a printer, and that's why the printer's cost is figured into the price of the 3D gun.

Add to that the fact that the 3D gun itself does not compete with 1920s firearms. The market for the printed gun that brakes when used one time is a small notch of specialty enthusiasts. That product does not appeal to the masses.

When the day comes that everyone has a 3D printer and there is a plan to make a reliable firearm, then on that day might there be a change in gun control law.
 
Jerry said:
I agree, one day 3D will catch on...we're already printing entire houses and living organs with it (something useful, unlike figurines :roll:).

One day 3D tech will be in every home, but that day is not today.

When someone announces that the new 3D printed gun will liberate individuals, they're wrong, because today only a few have a 3D printer. Because most people do not have the printer, most people are going to have to buy/rent a printer, and that's why the printer's cost is figured into the price of the 3D gun.

Add to that the fact that the 3D gun itself does not compete with 1920s firearms. The market for the printed gun that brakes when used one time is a small notch of specialty enthusiasts. That product does not appeal to the masses.

When the day comes that everyone has a 3D printer and there is a plan to make a reliable firearm, then on that day might there be a change in gun control law.
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Are you familiar with the printed AR-15 Receiver? The 1st one broke under stress but with the new pins its rather solid. The day of the reliably printed gun and magazine has come. I don't think it needs to be in every household to reach market penetration, knowing someone with one will be enough IMO. It doesn't need to appeal to the masses, early adopters are enough.
 
Jerry said:
That's all dollar-store bull****. Do you have any real examples or are you just going to keep ****ing around?

How about a sturdy framing hammer? You may be surprised how customized carpenters like those to be. Or how about other construction tools. How about car parts. Working computer parts. Anything useful.

Cabinets! If I could print custom cabinets, that alone would justify the cost.
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Wow, what's with the rancor? Heck, just a couple years ago folks were paying $150-$200 for a Cricket (a device that prints scrapbook materials). And what dollar store will sell you a bust of you own children?

But if you want to talk useful, pretty much everything you listed is a possibility. Maybe not the framing hammer yet, but there's been good progress on printed chips and other computer components. Car parts are an interesting idea and worth exploring.
 
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