• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

US Government shuts down 3D gun manufacturer

So in other words the government just doubled sales projections for 3D Printers.
 
Helix said:
that seems about as useless as the wooden gun from In the Line of Fire.
Click to expand...

I took a shotgun shell, propped it in a window and fired it by firing a pellet into it where the firing pin would would have struck. I wouldn't do it again and absolutely do not recommend it, but it worked.
 
I didn't read the entire thread, but I've been shallowly following this story since it broke. This isn't really just about gun control, but rather the convergence of two large issues: gun control (obviously) and copyright protection. As 3d printer technology advances, it will become more economical to produce and therefore we should start seeing consumer product that has the capability of printing in a multitude of materials, including metal. What this means is that, provided this happens, people will be able to go on the internet, obtain instructions on how to create virtually anything and what material to use, and then make it themselves. It effectively brings the entire idea of pirating intellectual property into the "real world". Instead of pirating songs, I could now pirate a car (the phrase "you wouldn't download a car" humorously becomes relevant). An extreme example, but certainly possible. So any Joe Schmoe can redesign literally anything in CAD, put it up on the internet, and anyone else can download it and create it in their printer.

The gun issue is being used right now because the 3d printed gun is what really brought this entire concept into the spotlight for politicians (and probably most of the public, though techies have known for decades what these printers could be capable of). It didn't put it into the context of copyright, but that doesn't really matter. Politicians and the lobbyists behind them are not only interested in controlling the ability to create guns with these printers, but also the ability to create literally anything else which could be a potential violation of copyright laws. They're trying to move against it before it can really take hold.

FWIW, the 3d gun cad models are freely available via Torrents. You can't delete stuff from the internet.
 
obvious Child said:
Considering the cost of a printer, the material to make it and the possibility of personal injury in firing this thing, it's just easier and cheaper to go buy a real firearm.

3D printing has a long way to go before we're going to get reliable, safe 3D printed guns. The Democrats are seriously overreacting to this thing.

Wonder if the file has a disclaimer about risk of personal injury from firing the weapon. I wouldn't be surprised if more people end up hurting themselves when the firearm malfunctions then people injured by intentional usage.
Click to expand...

its amazing that people freak out about it,yet so few realize criminals have made weapons for years,with basic machining tools and supplies available at home depot,capable of firing much more than one shot and little fear of it blowing up.heack anyone can walk into home depot and buy a decent pipe good enough to fire a 12 guage shell,as well as a makeshift stock and forearm and a crude firing pin mechanism.

when i was in california,one of the big things for criminals was counterfeit ak-47's.they were made from things like shovels,old pipes,sheet metal from discarded washers dryers etc.they were ugly,and horribly innacurate,but they fire full auto,could last through several magazines,and when they failed they could be tossed in a dumpster with no way of tracing back to anyone unless they left fingerprints.people tend to ignore the fact that firearms are not rocket science,almost anyone can crudely make a firearm solong as they use the proper strencgth and thickness metal.
 
beerftw said:
its amazing that people freak out about it,yet so few realize criminals have made weapons for years,with basic machining tools and supplies available at home depot,capable of firing much more than one shot and little fear of it blowing up.heack anyone can walk into home depot and buy a decent pipe good enough to fire a 12 guage shell,as well as a makeshift stock and forearm and a crude firing pin mechanism.

when i was in california,one of the big things for criminals was counterfeit ak-47's.they were made from things like shovels,old pipes,sheet metal from discarded washers dryers etc.they were ugly,and horribly innacurate,but they fire full auto,could last through several magazines,and when they failed they could be tossed in a dumpster with no way of tracing back to anyone unless they left fingerprints.people tend to ignore the fact that firearms are not rocket science,almost anyone can crudely make a firearm solong as they use the proper strencgth and thickness metal.
Click to expand...
Zip guns have been around for decades but that's not really the point of the thread. IMO, it won't be that long - maybe a decade assuming no government interference - before "real" guns (and lots of other things) can be printed like this.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Zip guns have been around for decades but that's not really the point of the thread. IMO, it won't be that long - maybe a decade assuming no government interference - before "real" guns (and lots of other things) can be printed like this.
Click to expand...

but real guns can already be made,much much cheaper,more reliable,and more accurate,yet no effort is made to stop it,yet 3d printers have made many headlines,yet it cant even do what people have been doing in their own homes for over a hundred years.if someone wanted to stop illegal gun sales or prevent criminals from having guns,3d printers would be the last thing to focus on,it would be better spent trying to eliminate demand for illegal guns,as demand always creates supply as seen in the war on drugs,second would be to attack illegal gun manufacturors,not to attack what they use tomake them,as most of the time they are commonly used materials and machines used by normal law abiding citizens.
 
beerftw said:
but real guns can already be made,much much cheaper,more reliable,and more accurate,yet no effort is made to stop it,yet 3d printers have made many headlines,yet it cant even do what people have been doing in their own homes for over a hundred years.if someone wanted to stop illegal gun sales or prevent criminals from having guns,3d printers would be the last thing to focus on,it would be better spent trying to eliminate demand for illegal guns,as demand always creates supply as seen in the war on drugs,second would be to attack illegal gun manufacturors,not to attack what they use tomake them,as most of the time they are commonly used materials and machines used by normal law abiding citizens.
Click to expand...
In a decade or so when the first AK-47 comes out of a 3D printer for a third the price (or less) will you still feel the same?
 
MoSurveyor said:
In a decade or so when the first AK-47 comes out of a 3D printer for a tenth the price will you still feel the same?
Click to expand...

i doubt that,gang bangers can currently make them and sell them for less than 100 bucks a piece with scrap metal,i doubt 3dprinters in the next 100 years can beat that price,especially considering their current reliable is such crap even if they got so cheap they could make one for 4 dollars,no one would want one because how low their life is,hell with one shot life i could just buy a musket and do the same.
 
beerftw said:
i doubt that,gang bangers can currently make them and sell them for less than 100 bucks a piece with scrap metal,i doubt 3dprinters in the next 100 years can beat that price,especially considering their current reliable is such crap even if they got so cheap they could make one for 4 dollars,no one would want one because how low their life is,hell with one shot life i could just buy a musket and do the same.
Click to expand...
Make, what? An AK-47 or equivalent?

I wasn't talking about a one shot. I said "AK-47" and meant it - a real, live, fully-functional AK-47 and maybe lighter since I suspect a titanium alloy will be used instead of steel to make up for the (possibly) lower the structural strength (if any) from the printing process.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Make, what? An AK-47 or equivalent?

I wasn't talking about a one shot. I said "AK-47" and meant it - a real, live, fully-functional AK-47 and maybe lighter since I suspect a titanium alloy will be used instead of steel to make up for the (possibly) lower the structural strength (if any) from the printing process.
Click to expand...
Or perferated aluminum with high temp rubber in between most connections. Wait... not perforated aluminum. Like porous or somethings. Lots of holes drilled or forged through it for cooldown yet as strong as possible with the maximum allowed of cooldown. Maybe even thin fins sticking out in between to make more surface area so breezes cool it down. Seems easier just to go for a bulky high str material though.
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Or perferated aluminum with high temp rubber in between most connections. Wait... not perforated aluminum. Like porous or somethings. Lots of holes drilled or forged through it for cooldown yet as strong as possible with the maximum allowed of cooldown. Maybe even thin fins sticking out in between to make more surface area so breezes cool it down. Seems easier just to go for a bulky high str material though.
Click to expand...
Aluminum is weaker than steel, which in turn is usually weaker than titanium alloys.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Aluminum is weaker than steel, which in turn is usually weaker than titanium alloys.
Click to expand...

but also incredibly cheap. And can probably be designed to have much of the force absorbed into rubber or something. There are also aluminium alloys.
 
MoSurveyor said:
Make, what? An AK-47 or equivalent?

I wasn't talking about a one shot. I said "AK-47" and meant it - a real, live, fully-functional AK-47 and maybe lighter since I suspect a titanium alloy will be used instead of steel to make up for the (possibly) lower the structural strength (if any) from the printing process.
Click to expand...

no real printting process today or anytime in the forseeable future can handle consistent shots of a firearm.they use steel and bronze powder for metal printing now,and its very weak,its mostly used for making small car parts like old stereo knobs,and is extremely fragile.titanium would require a good fusion metal,and using a fusion metal would be still weaker than steel.


plus titanium is very expensive,for the cost of the titanium power to equal less strength than forged steel,you could still make one old fashioned quicker and cheaper on basic machining tools.
 
beerftw said:
no real printting process today or anytime in the forseeable future can handle consistent shots of a firearm.they use steel and bronze powder for metal printing now,and its very weak,its mostly used for making small car parts like old stereo knobs,and is extremely fragile.titanium would require a good fusion metal,and using a fusion metal would be still weaker than steel.

plus titanium is very expensive,for the cost of the titanium power to equal less strength than forged steel,you could still make one old fashioned quicker and cheaper on basic machining tools.
Click to expand...
Considering how far this technology has gone in the last tens years do you still believe what you're saying will hold true in another ten years?
 
MoSurveyor said:
Considering how far this technology has gone in the last tens years do you still believe what you're saying will hold true in another ten years?
Click to expand...

it still holds limited functionality,since it holds no ability to make stong metals needed,and if it had been deemed viable,both gun and car manufacturors would have already been dumping billions into its further developement.

they are great for making prototype parts,or making doorknobs and fancy cabinet handles,but in terms of replacing real machinery,its not too far a cry from jb weld in terms of strength.
 
beerftw said:
it still holds limited functionality,since it holds no ability to make stong metals needed,and if it had been deemed viable,both gun and car manufacturors would have already been dumping billions into its further developement.

they are great for making prototype parts,or making doorknobs and fancy cabinet handles,but in terms of replacing real machinery,its not too far a cry from jb weld in terms of strength.
Click to expand...
It's not viable for mass produced volumes, yet, but that doesn't stop it from being very beneficial on a piece by piece basis, especially in homes and small business.

Chrysler had one of the first 3D printers when it built it's technology center. It helped shorten the design process by two years because engineers could print out the part and use it on the prototype for fitment and access without having to order it from the machine shop, which took much longer than the 3D printer. Ancient technology at this point, though. I'm sure they've replaced the original.



The idea of structural strength has been brought up before in this thread but I haven't seen a definitive answer on that. Do you have links?
 
MoSurveyor said:
It's not viable for mass produced volumes, yet, but that doesn't stop it from being very beneficial on a piece by piece basis, especially in homes and small business.

Chrysler had one of the first 3D printers when it built it's technology center. It helped shorten the design process by two years because engineers could print out the part and use it on the prototype for fitment and access without having to order it from the machine shop, which took much longer than the 3D printer. Ancient technology at this point, though. I'm sure they've replaced the original.



The idea of structural strength has been brought up before in this thread but I haven't seen a definitive answer on that. Do you have links?
Click to expand...

no definate answer on structural improvements exist because its not withing any logical grasp of knowledge to this date.the metal has to be fused,which requires a weaker metal to fuse a stronger one.in order to fuse steelpwder without a binding agent that severely reduces its strength,would require things like lasers powerfull enough to melt iron,in which case making any such printer in any forseeable future would still be more expensive than any common alternative.

3d printers are a large step forward for many things,but they cannot and from all evidence will not replace high strength steel.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Good thing I already downloaded it. Now all it takes is for somebody, anybody, to upload it to a foreign site. Then there's **** they can do about it. This isn't going away.

Anybody need a copy?
Click to expand...
I don't have a printer.

Pro plastic-gun folks keep saying I shouldn't factor the cost of the printer in the cost of the gun, but these same people can't explain how a gun is going to jump out of the CAD file without a printer.
 
Jerry said:
I don't have a printer.

Pro plastic-gun folks keep saying I shouldn't factor the cost of the printer in the cost of the gun, but these same people can't explain how a gun is going to jump out of the CAD file without a printer.
Click to expand...
Not even an InkJet? Wow! :shock:
 
Jerry said:
I don't have a printer.

Pro plastic-gun folks keep saying I shouldn't factor the cost of the printer in the cost of the gun, but these same people can't explain how a gun is going to jump out of the CAD file without a printer.
Click to expand...

Jerry I have allot of respect for you, but why on this issue are you pretending to be stupid? I have seen and agreed with far to many of your posts to fall for that.

A 3D printer can be used to print allot more than a 1 shot over glorified zip gun. As was mentioned before magazines, receivers and other low impact gun parts including silencers can all be printed on any 3D printer with plentiful cheap ABS media. That is just an example of the things available for gun enthusiasts. When you add in all the everyday items and even furniture, tools and much more the price of the printer is not really a consideration as only an idiot would pay $800 to $1600 just to print a zip gun. When printing pictures I guess you figure in the cost of the laser or inkjet printer? Of course not, same thing. You do however figure in the cost of consumables. In this case they are pretty cheap and readily available for any 3d printer, even the older models.

To be honest I could care less about the gun and had already planned to buy one to print magazines and a receiver for my next AK build. Now even after that I will continue to use it for other things like miniatures I use for modeling, wargaming and certain floating dive equipment. I can also use it to print plastic buckles etc that break on my gear rather than having to order them. I can use it for hundreds of other items that I can print cheaply. In a year or less it will have paid for itself in saving me money on other things.

So your argument here is nutty at best.
 
Jerry said:
Link to where these 3D plastic guns can be printed from an ink jet.
Click to expand...
So you do have an InkJet? What, no pencils handy? I mean, that was your reason to reject the idea of 3D home printers, wasn't it, because you could do it cheaper the old fashioned way?
 
The blueprints are still available on Pirate Bay, and will stay there. Attempting to ban information is futile, whether people like it or not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom