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Thread: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Elizabeth warren collectivist..........enemy of republican government

    Elizabeth Warren's "You Didn't Build That Speech" as made famous by Obama [HD] - YouTube
    For the most part, I thought she was pretty much right on with those sentiments.
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    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Your assumption is that it would make it more affordable. That is quite false, as colleges will just raise their tuition to capture the difference, as they have done ever since the student loan program was put into place. Thus, this is really just welfare to the colleges' coffers (which are already quite full I might add) with higher tuition being the result placed on students.
    Yes, yes, that tired meme. It has no basis in any study, it's just a rightwing talking point. When you find a study to support this bizarre claim, give us a call. Maybe you can explain for instance why colleges would increase tuition for payment made from loans, as opposed out of a rich daddy's bank account, as if the cash is different or something.

    Meantime, even if true, all it would mean in any case is that colleges that accept students who have loans should face more rigorous regulation (as in fact they already do). Problem solved.

    But of course you don't want to solve the problem. You only want the rich to get an education.

    NEXT RIGHTWING MEME!

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    To my knowledge the schools that accept federal loans do not have their tuition regulated by them. The fact is that tuition has been increasing drastically compared to inflation and salary increases. Part of the problem may be due to increased access to federal financing opportunities.
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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Yes, yes, that tired meme. It has no basis in any study, it's just a rightwing talking point. When you find a study to support this bizarre claim, give us a call. Maybe you can explain for instance why colleges would increase tuition for payment made from loans, as opposed out of a rich daddy's bank account, as if the cash is different or something.

    Meantime, even if true, all it would mean in any case is that colleges that accept students who have loans should face more rigorous regulation (as in fact they already do). Problem solved.

    But of course you don't want to solve the problem. You only want the rich to get an education.

    NEXT RIGHTWING MEME!
    The main lesson from this first refinement is that aid targeted to low income students (such as the Pell grant and subsidized Stafford loans) kink the demand curve, while universal (or near universal) aid (such as unsubsidized Stafford loans and the education tax credits) shift the entire demand curve. These programs therefore have very different implications when it comes to their impact on tuition. For policy makers, the key point is that financial aid that is restricted to low income students is much less likely to be captured by colleges, and will therefore be more likely to succeed in making college more affordable and therefore accessible (for low income students). In contrast, universally available programs
    are more likely to simply fuel tuition increases and therefore more likely to fail to make college more affordable.
    http://centerforcollegeaffordability...pothesis_2.pdf

    Where did I say I only want the rich to get an education? That is nonsense. What I want to see rather, is college costs restructured rather then throwing more money at the problem.
    There is simply no reason for me to pay $700 for a 70 year old "professor" to read off wikipedia and show us movies because it is a "required Gen Ed." This was the case several times in my studies, and unfortunately that is several thousand dollars which I will never get back. If you really want to make college more affordable, get rid of teacher tenure.

    Anyways, the second faulty assumption you are making is that this will lead to a more productive, trained workforce.

    It should lead to one, but it won't if it just means we get more useless English and Art History majors instead of engineers. But, of course, that is a discussion for another time and place.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    To my knowledge the schools that accept federal loans do not have their tuition regulated by them. The fact is that tuition has been increasing drastically compared to inflation and salary increases. Part of the problem may be due to increased access to federal financing opportunities.
    Well, it's a bit tricker than this. Specific federal loans require certain qualifications from the educational institutions (like graduation rates). The point is, the regulatory system is there. If the problem is more loans equal higher tuition, as conservative claim, then the solution is to regulate tuition increases or the institutions have to forgo the loans.

    Since almost all students get some loan support, it would be suicide for a college to reject that deal.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    http://centerforcollegeaffordability...pothesis_2.pdf

    Where did I say I only want the rich to get an education? That is nonsense. What I want to see rather, is college costs restructured rather then throwing more money at the problem.
    There is simply no reason for me to pay $700 for a 70 year old "professor" to read off wikipedia and show us movies because it is a "required Gen Ed." This was the case several times in my studies, and unfortunately that is several thousand dollars which I will never get back. If you really want to make college more affordable, get rid of teacher tenure.

    Anyways, the second faulty assumption you are making is that this will lead to a more productive, trained workforce.

    It should lead to one, but it won't if it just means we get more useless English and Art History majors instead of engineers. But, of course, that is a discussion for another time and place.
    I guess you didn't really read the link. It's a hypothesis that admits it hasn't been tested. So much for that.

    But indeed, the hypothesis really reduces to the claim that if more kids go to college, tuition goes up. It has nothing to do with loans per se. It wouldn't matter if the college is paid by a rich daddy or by borrowing at exorbitant rates from private banks. What does matter is how that affects the students.

    Frankly even if tuition does go up because more kids are getting college education (not necessarily a bad thing if it means better services), as long as the loans have low interest, it's still benefits overall productivity. And so this excursion hasn't made your case at all, but it does make mine: better educated people are more productive and produce economic growth and general prosperity more than unskilled uneducated workers. Every study shows that. So you now need to trot out another discredited hypothesis for me to shoot down.

    I love the defense of knownothingism from the right.
    Last edited by head of joaquin; 05-08-13 at 11:34 PM.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    my point has nothing to do with conservatism, it has to do with republican government, and the people who would destroy it with their collectivism.
    So what do low interest student lows have to do with "collectivism" again?
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Elizabeth warren collectivist..........enemy of republican government

    Elizabeth Warren's "You Didn't Build That Speech" as made famous by Obama [HD] - YouTube
    Oh god it's another one of those people who thinks Obama was suddenly making a jab at small business owners in the middle of a populist speech.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I guess you didn't really read the link. It's a hypothesis that admits it hasn't been tested. So much for that.

    But indeed, the hypothesis really reduces to the claim that if more kids go to college, tuition goes up. It has nothing to do with loans per se. It wouldn't matter if the college is paid by a rich daddy or by borrowing at exorbitant rates from private banks. What does matter is how that affects the students.

    Frankly even if tuition does go up because more kids are getting college education (not necessarily a bad thing if it means better services), as long as the loans have low interest, it's still benefits overall productivity. And so this excursion hasn't made your case at all, but it does make mine: better educated people are more productive and produce economic growth and general prosperity more than unskilled uneducated workers. Every study shows that. So you now need to trot out another discredited hypothesis for me to shoot down.

    I love the defense of knownothingism from the right.
    I love it when I finally pry a logical, and reasonable answer out of you.

    Yes and no. College tuition increases are a complicated subject. The article uses previous research to show that college tuition does go up as a result of federal aid in certain circumstances, but the relationship is less then 1:1. Fair enough, it might have some of an impact, but its probably less then the savings as a result of lower interest rates. But as a college student myself, I absolutely hated having to pay >$700 for useless tenured old professors teaching required courses that weren't even a part of my major. Several thousand dollars, flushed down the toilet. Cutting the Gen Ed requirements would prove to be extremely beneficial to bringing down college costs, and raising productivity. Surely, you can't tell me that having another year of taking medical based courses wouldn't lead to me having a much higher productivity.

    But as far as productivity and job filling goes, you're making the assumption that more student graduates will lead to more jobs being filled. Yes and no. Some professions that we need more of such as engineers, nurses, IT staff, finance staff, etc. do require job degrees. But other jobs short of talent don't, they require skills learned in trade schools. Increasing the number of English and Art history majors isn't going to do anything to fill those positions, or lead to economic prosperity. No, all it does is lead to a growth of the college system and college costs without any corresponding increase in private sector benefit.

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    Re: Warren’s proposal: Offer college students the same interest rates as banks

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Sure I can and do all the time. You splashing around at this point.

    For instance, Warren's policy of making student loans more affordable results in more productivity and higher revenues, as workers get educated for jobs they are good at, rather than having to settle for lesser jobs because they lack the education.

    See it's easy. Now you try to actually put together a conservative argument against student loan availability. Lots of luck.
    How is that working for the current 25% of unemployed college students or the huge supply of 4-year degrees working as baristas? Face it, college is not what it used to be. Whether you keep loans at 2% or 7%, we don't have nearly the amount of jobs that require a college degree that can accomodate the supply of labor with college degrees.

    The whole point of college being a pathway to success in the past was its rarity. When everyone has a degree, very few people stand out, and the only difference becomes that you have an pay an extra 4 years of opportunity cost and still end up with the same service job that requires no knowledge of art history.

    All her policies will do is inflate the student loan bubble even further and drive up tuition prices even more. Students will take out more and bigger loans and colleges will laugh all the way to the bank with the institution of these "progressive" policies. So in reality students end up with a higher principal payment but lower interest rate, and the work force is no better off than it is today. We already have an unemployment and underemployment problem for college-educated students and our youth; this will not solve it.

    Also, when you talk about a better educated society being better off, are you taking into account cost? An entire society of academics will starve to death. At some point, working is preferable to further education. Education is supposed to be a means to make individuals more productive and efficient. For example, a programmer who writes an algorithm to do a rote task over and over increases efficiency. An arts major student does not increase efficiency for 99% of jobs, so it is really just a 4 year sunk cost.

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