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Thread: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    And I had this bizarrre notion that - at least in theory - everyday in Congress was supposed to be a day of reason. Besides, he's being unreasonable.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Prayer is reasonable.
    Precisely. I always get a giggle when I see people attempt to discuss faith and reason as competing ends of some spectrum.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    San Francisco Congressman
    That's all I needed to read.
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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Here I will just go with the basic Wiki that points out about healing. Although I am sure those who are more into Religion would know more about cases of Healing.

    Scientific studies regarding the use of prayer have mostly concentrated on its effect on the healing of sick or injured people. Meta-studies of the studies in this field have been performed showing evidence only for no effect or a potentially small effect. For instance, a 2006 meta analysis on 14 studies concluded that there is "no discernable effect" while a 2007 systemic review of intercessory prayer reported inconclusive results, noting that 7 of 17 studies had "small, but significant, effect sizes" but the review noted that the most methodologically rigorous studies failed to produce significant findings.[1][2] The efficacy of petition in prayer for physical healing to a deity has been evaluated in numerous other studies, with contradictory results.[3][4][5][6] There has been some criticism of the way the studies were conducted.....snip~
    So then no, no demonstrable examples of supernatural healing via prayer. Meanwhile, billions of lives saved through science and reason.

    Again.....invented machines are an external source. Life saving techniques would not apply in cases where those have been healed to walk when they couldn't. Or to come back from some life threatening disease. Such as Cancer.
    On the contrary. We built them. With our minds, with our reason. We built prosthetic arms and legs that can be controlled directly by brain waves. That is exactly the product of human reason. People who would have been crippled can walk. Mothers who would have died in childbirth now live, and so do their children. Vaccines kept childhood diseases in check and put infant mortality down in ways that prayer has never done.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Congressman Pete Stark calls for National Day of Reason instead of prayer.....

    Sounds reasonable.

    Jus'sayin'

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So then no, no demonstrable examples of supernatural healing via prayer. Meanwhile, billions of lives saved through science and reason.



    On the contrary. We built them. With our minds, with our reason. We built prosthetic arms and legs that can be controlled directly by brain waves. That is exactly the product of human reason. People who would have been crippled can walk. Mothers who would have died in childbirth now live, and so do their children. Vaccines kept childhood diseases in check and put infant mortality down in ways that prayer has never done.
    Actually, I didn't even look to see Pasch.....I thought maybe some of those that are religious and into prayer would know about cases of Healing thru Prayer. So that is not to say there isn't any demonstrable examples. Moreover, even Wiki notes there are with what they have referenced.

    It is not the same.....as one who is cured from like Cancer. Wherein medically they knew the individual had cancer. Validated thru medical people. Yet then walks in one day and it is gone. No trace in the body. Allegedly cured by Prayer. Not reason.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    It is not the same.....as one who is cured from like Cancer. Wherein medically they knew the individual had cancer. Validated thru medical people. Yet then walks in one day and it is gone. No trace in the body. Allegedly cured by Prayer. Not reason.
    Allegedly cured by prayer. Actually cured by immune system. But you're inexplicably limiting this to sudden and spontaneous recoveries. Which is nonsense. Every single person who is saved from death by chemotherapy is saved because of human reason and our invention of that treatment. Everyone who is saved because of a vaccine is saved by human reason and our invention of vaccines. I'm not sure what you envision for "curing by reason". Do you imagine someone logically deducing that a person ought to suddenly be healthy? That's not how it works.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Prayer is reasonable.
    Go into the thread about the parents who allowed their child to die without medical attention and tell us all about how prayer is reasonable.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Does any fundie out there remember what Jesus said about praying in public? Of course not. The irony is the religious right never reads what Jesus actually said:

    Mat 6:6 - "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

    But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you
    So much for literalism among the fundies.

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    Re: Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Does any fundie out there remember what Jesus said about praying in public? Of course not. The irony is the religious right never reads what Jesus actually said:



    So much for literalism among the fundies.
    Then there were the Eastern Religions.....so much for the lacking thought processes of a Progressive.

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