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Thread: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Shoved underneath a rug by Muslims?
    A lot of the good muslims are just as hated by the radicals, during my college days I got to sit and have coffee with people of many different faiths and moderates by and large aren't that different. One of my muslim friends was here to study diplomacy, he wants a peaceful dialogue between the middle east and the western world, and he wasn't afraid to speak truth. The biggest problem I see regarding moderates is that to report the crackpot extremists is to invite retaliation, until that situation is cleared it's understandable that they are a little reluctant to report issues, that and islamaphobia may make some fear a rise in anti-Islam sentiment. The whole situation needs more discussion.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Right, I think the number of deaths Muslim Americans terrorist acts since 2001 is something like 20? I agree that we should track those who come into the country suspiciously and agree with disrupting terrorist organizations overseas that could potentially attack the US, yada yada. But lets be serious. If you or I decided we wanted to make a bomb and take out a bunch of people in public we could do it. Fairly easily I might add. The only thing stopping you or I from doing it is rationality and valuing human life; and we can't spend tens of billions of dollars on surveillance of the 99.9% of rational people to try and prevent the .1% of irrational people from being able to do anything.
    So we have 20 (I will assume your number is relatively correct) deaths from terrorist bombings in 12 years compared to 900 deaths from mass shootings in 7 years. So, our conservative friends want to spend millions to "watch" the Muslims among us to prevent these two dozen deaths from "terrorists", but can't even pass a benign, almost inconsequential cost watered down background check bill.

    But then again, 20 deaths in 12 years is terror and 900 deaths from mass shootings is just acceptable collateral casualties so that we can "enjoy" unlimited gun ownership. Even if you add in 9/11 and project this out over 30 years, statistically speaking, you are far more likely to die in a mass shooting (or even a car jacking) than in a terrorist attack, yet all the fear is about the Muslim boogeyman.

    Of course, the idea of increase police surveillance has a cost.... it means MORE government spending and bigger deficits (unless you are willing to raise taxes to pay for it). Of course, you could re-elect GW and he could tell you how we can wage this new war on terror while cutting taxes to pay for it.

    The logic of the Cons is beyond belief... its a part that hates Science, Math (the polls are always wrong) and now logic.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 04-21-13 at 03:05 AM.

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    A lot of the good muslims are just as hated by the radicals, during my college days I got to sit and have coffee with people of many different faiths and moderates by and large aren't that different. One of my muslim friends was here to study diplomacy, he wants a peaceful dialogue between the middle east and the western world, and he wasn't afraid to speak truth. The biggest problem I see regarding moderates is that to report the crackpot extremists is to invite retaliation, until that situation is cleared it's understandable that they are a little reluctant to report issues, that and islamaphobia may make some fear a rise in anti-Islam sentiment. The whole situation needs more discussion.
    Courageous Muslim moderates seem to be rare, and all too often the courageous ones are killed off by the radicals. And even the good guys are eager to blame the West for the problems of their societies.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    How many fatwas has John Hagee called for in the past few decades...or for that matter, any other prominent 'Bible Thumper'...speaking of labeling...I also wonder if those who are so concerned about the rights of our Muslim brothers and sisters have the same concerns about the unborn human beings who are murdered by the thousands for convenience in this country...to the best of my knowledge they'ed not advocated the killing of anyone...I could be wrong I suppose...

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Courageous Muslim moderates seem to be rare, and all too often the courageous ones are killed off by the radicals. And even the good guys are eager to blame the West for the problems of their societies.
    I don't agree completely. Moderate muslims to an extent might blame the west for their ills but no more so than some college graduates who had to live four plus years of the indoctrination by communist professors. I guess what I'm saying is that many moderates are probably silent to protect their families, they would be the first killed in a fatwa.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't agree completely. Moderate muslims to an extent might blame the west for their ills but no more so than some college graduates who had to live four plus years of the indoctrination by communist professors. I guess what I'm saying is that many moderates are probably silent to protect their families, they would be the first killed in a fatwa.
    These are the guys who tell us in private that they're with us, but we should "understand" that they have to blame us in public.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    These are the guys who tell us in private that they're with us, but we should "understand" that they have to blame us in public.
    I don't know about that extent. Silence doesn't help, but I don't see them blaming us any more in public. This is the moderates I mean.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    So we have 20 (I will assume your number is relatively correct) deaths from terrorist bombings in 12 years compared to 900 deaths from mass shootings in 7 years. So, our conservative friends want to spend millions to "watch" the Muslims among us to prevent these two dozen deaths from "terrorists", but can't even pass a benign, almost inconsequential cost watered down background check bill.

    But then again, 20 deaths in 12 years is terror and 900 deaths from mass shootings is just acceptable collateral casualties so that we can "enjoy" unlimited gun ownership. Even if you add in 9/11 and project this out over 30 years, statistically speaking, you are far more likely to die in a mass shooting (or even a car jacking) than in a terrorist attack, yet all the fear is about the Muslim boogeyman.

    Of course, the idea of increase police surveillance has a cost.... it means MORE government spending and bigger deficits (unless you are willing to raise taxes to pay for it). Of course, you could re-elect GW and he could tell you how we can wage this new war on terror while cutting taxes to pay for it.

    The logic of the Cons is beyond belief... its a part that hates Science, Math (the polls are always wrong) and now logic.
    Try over 3,000 in bombings over 20 years. 9/11 ring a bell? At least be honest about the numbers, and this is about a consgressman's stupid statement, not gun control.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I don't know about that extent. Silence doesn't help, but I don't see them blaming us any more in public. This is the moderates I mean.
    Fair enough. Please point them out whenever you find some.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: GOP Congressman: ‘Increase Surveillance’ of Muslim Community

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Fair enough. Please point them out whenever you find some.
    Well, my college friends for one. One was specifically training for diplomatic positions with the U.S. government to foster peace between the east, west, and middle east.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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