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Thread: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Easy firearm sales over the Internet, through classified sites like Craigslist, may be to blame for a significant amount of the nation’s gun crime, thanks to a loophole in federal firearm regulations that some private arms sellers are taking advantage of, according to a new investigation released Wednesday.

    In a probe of illegal online firearm sales conducted by the City of New York, undercover investigators found that 62% of private gun sellers they interacted with were willing to sell guns to a buyer who said he could not pass a background check."



    Read more: Investigation: Illegal Gun Buyers Have an Easy Time Online | TIME.com
    And you think any legislation would change this? Good luck with that...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    And you think any legislation would change this? Good luck with that...
    Thanks!..........
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Easy firearm sales over the Internet, through classified sites like Craigslist, may be to blame for a significant amount of the nation’s gun crime, thanks to a loophole in federal firearm regulations that some private arms sellers are taking advantage of, according to a new investigation released Wednesday.

    In a probe of illegal online firearm sales conducted by the City of New York, undercover investigators found that 62% of private gun sellers they interacted with were willing to sell guns to a buyer who said he could not pass a background check."



    Read more: Investigation: Illegal Gun Buyers Have an Easy Time Online | TIME.com
    Craigslist isn't a dealer. It's a classifieds, identical to newspapers. No one is going to Cregslist and then UPS delivers a gun to their house. That's what an online transaction is. That doesn't happen with firearms.

    If you see a gun you want to buy on Craigslist, the buyer and seller still have to meet in person to do the transaction if they're in the same state. Congress does not have the authority to regulate intrastate commerce.

    If the buyer and seller are in different states, the seller has to go to an FFL and ship the gun to another FFL, who will conduct NICS when the buyer comes in to pick it up. Congress does have the authority to regulate this.

    And if the buyer has an exempt permit, there is no NICS ran at all even if they use an FFL for the transfer.

    Background checks don't combat illegal ownership.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 06:03 PM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Craigslist isn't a dealer.............
    I have seen no limitation just to dealers on the internet in any of the news articles I've read about the proposed legislation. And the difference between advertising on in the local paper and advertising on the internet is one is local and the other is across state lines which puts it in the federal area of regulation.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Craigslist isn't a dealer. It's a classifieds, identical to newspapers. No one is going to Cregslist and then UPS delivers a gun to their house. That's what an online transaction is. That doesn't happen with firearms.

    If you see a gun you want to buy on Craigslist, the buyer and seller still have to meet in person to do the transaction if they're in the same state. Congress does not have the authority to regulate intrastate commerce.

    If the buyer and seller are in different states, the seller has to go to an FFL and ship the gun to another FFL, who will conduct NICS when the buyer comes in to pick it up. Congress does have the authority to regulate this.

    And if the buyer has an exempt permit, there is no NICS ran at all even if they use an FFL for the transfer.

    Background checks don't combat illegal ownership.
    he is not interested in curbing illegal gun ownership

    he is interested in harassing law abiding gun owners

    he is interested in passing more and more laws that have no proper constitutional basis by appealing to emotion so that he can claim precedent when the next unconstitutional emotionally appealing law is proposed

    His ultimate goal is to ban all private gun ownership unless one is a wealthy democratic party politician or supporter



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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have seen no limitation just to dealers on the internet in any of the news articles I've read about the proposed legislation. And the difference between advertising on in the local paper and advertising on the internet is one is local and the other is across state lines which puts it in the federal area of regulation.
    The transaction itself has to cross a state line, otherwise it's not interstate commerce regardless of where the adds appear.

    If a seller in Utah has a gun I want, and I buy it through their website while I'm in SD and I want it sent to me, that's interstate commerce. The seller will have to send it to an FFL in my state. That FFL will run NICS on me when I pick it up.

    If, while in SD, I buy a gun from a seller in Utah and then travel to Utah to pick it up, that is interstate commerce because the buyer and seller were in different states when money changed hands. I have a Utah permit which is NICS exempt, no NICS will be run at all and I can have that gun loaded and on my hip as I drive back home.

    However, if I travel to Utah, and pay for the gun while in Utah, that is not interstate commerce. And again, I have a Utah permit which is NICS exempt, no NICS will be run at all and I can have that gun loaded and on my hip as I drive back home.

    If you want to educate yourself on what a loophole really is, become a gun owner and travel armed. You have no idea what a loophole is. As a resident of SD I can have no paperwork or permits at all and still legally posses a handgun in Chicago despite their bans. If you color inside the lines you can do a lot.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 06:27 PM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The transaction itself has to cross a state line, otherwise it's not interstate commerce regardless of where the adds appear.

    If a dealer in Utah has a gun I want, and I buy it through their website while I'm in SD and I want it sent to me, that's interstate commerce they have to send it to an FFL in my state. That FFL will run NICS on me when I pick it up.

    If I while in SD I buy a gun from a Utah dealer and then travel to Utah to pick it up, that is interstate commerce because the buyer and seller were in different states when money changed hands. I have a Utah permit which is NICS exempt, no NICS will be run at all and I can have that gun loaded and on my hip as I drive back home.

    However, if I travel to Utah, and pay for the gun while in Utah, that is not interstate commerce. Then since I have a Utah permit which is NICS exempt, no NICS will be run at all and I can have that gun loaded and on my hip as I drive back home.

    If you want to educate yourself on what a loophole really is, become a gun owner and travel armed. You have no idea what a loophole is. As a resident of SD I can have no paperwork or permits at all and still legally posses a handgun in Chicago despite their bans. If you color inside the lines you can do a lot.


    I'll wait to see how the legislation is written before I speculate wildly, but thank you for doing so!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I'll wait to see how the legislation is written before I speculate wildly, but thank you for doing so!
    If you need to believe that I was speculating instead of going on actual information I received through formal training by the respective states, I guess you have the right to do that just as you have the right to believe in the Easter Bunny also.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I'll wait to see how the legislation is written before I speculate wildly, but thank you for doing so!
    I guess that is another way of saying you don't care if the legislation has any chance of stopping crime-as long as more laws are passed its fine with you



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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I guess that is another way of saying you don't care if the legislation has any chance of stopping crime-as long as more laws are passed its fine with you
    Thanks for the view of those who profit from gun sales.

    I'll go with the investigation by the police, as referenced above:

    "In a probe of illegal online firearm sales conducted by the City of New York, undercover investigators found that 62% of private gun sellers they interacted with were willing to sell guns to a buyer who said he could not pass a background check."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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