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Thread: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

  1. #41
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    An investigator uses a hidden camera and poses as a buyer to capture a vendor stating that he doesn't care that the undercover investigator says cannot pass an NICS. Then the investigator makes the sale, then arrests the vendor in front of everyone making sure everyone knows why, the ATF confiscates his inventory and brings him up on charges.
    Simple huh...LOL. No wonder there are so few prosecutions and even in your scenario I doubt they could get an conviction. All the dealer has to say is that he thought the agent was joking because no real felon would admit such a thing. It's all about what the dealer thought isn't it?

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Simple huh...LOL. No wonder there are so few prosecutions and even in your scenario I doubt they could get an conviction. All the dealer has to say is that he thought the agent was joking because no real felon would admit such a thing. It's all about what the dealer thought isn't it?
    That is for a jury to decide.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    First, you beat them to death with political correctness. Then, you accuse them of every vile thing on earth and spread it across the media. Finally, you point out that they are old, white, and reactionary, they don't pay their fair share, and they hide money somewhere. That ought to do it.
    What the hell are you talking about?


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    More enforcement, as required.


    Ask. "Do you believe you can pass a background check?" Didn't you watch your video? The investigator told a vendor that he couldn't pass a background check and then the vendor refused to sell to him saying it was illegal.

    This is super simple stuff.
    How can you prove if someone asked that question or not? Word of mouth dont often hold up in law. Does one have to ask that question?
    So it seems your for "word of mouth background checks" that can easily be lied about. All one have to do to answer that "verbal background check" is lie and say no. Why not just make it a legal law enforced background check?


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    How can you prove if someone asked that question or not?
    You linked to an undercover investigator. This is exactly like police departments who use highschool kids to try and buy cigarettes so they can catch the vendors who are braking the law. That's how you enforce these things.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why not just make it a legal law enforced background check?
    In post #17 you said it wouldn't help prevent gun crime.

    Background checks are about registration, why can't you just be up front about that?

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You linked to an undercover investigator. This is exactly like police departments who use highschool kids to try and buy cigarettes so they can catch the vendors who are braking the law. That's how you enforce these things.
    Yea since im guessing police departments are gonna do that and a gigantic level like Alcholic Beverage Control right? And you do realize they dont have to ask that question right?

    In post #17 you said it wouldn't help prevent gun crime.
    I said it wouldnt help prevent several massacres you were talking about.

    Background checks are about registration, why can't you just be up front about that?
    Its about keeping guns out of the hands of mentally unstable and felons. How is that not common sense legislation?


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Its about keeping guns out of the hands of mentally unstable and felons. How is that not common sense legislation?
    It's a nice idea, very agreeable, to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and violent felons. The thing is, you're assuming criminal sellers will run background checks. They don't. Just like criminal tobacco vendors don't card highschool kids.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 04:18 PM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    It's a nice idea, very agreeable, to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and violent felons. The thing is, you're assuming criminal sellers will run background checks. They don't.
    So your telling me people who are connected to gangs, gun violence, etc dont buy guns from non "criminal sellers" and therefore we should not implement a program of background checks for them?


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So your telling me people who are connected to gangs, gun violence, etc dont buy guns from non "criminal sellers" and therefore we should not implement a program of background checks for them?
    Background checks don't touch the ways criminals get their guns.

    • If you legally own a firearm, and someone burglarizes your home and takes your gun, there was no one there to first run a background check on the bugler before hey ran off with your gun.
    • When that bugler sells your gun to someone in the market for a stolen firearm, there's no one there to first run a background check on the buyer.
    • When a straw-purchaser walks into an FFL, has a valid ID, CCW, and passes NICS with no problems, thus legally buys a gun, even registering it...and then has a "boating accident" the next week and complies with the law by reporting his new gun as lost or stolen within 24-48hrs...but in reality sold those guns to the black market...there is no one present to first run a background check on the buyer.

    It's a good and desirable thing to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable and violent felons, but background checks are not the right tool for that job. What is needed is good undercover work like the video you posted. It's not just that you catch bad vendors, but make an example out of the ones you catch, and this will cause a massive wave of voluntary compliance from 99% of all the other vendors. Of the vendors who would still sell to criminals, they're taking a grater risk and so the price of the illegal gun skyrockets like a tax. Illegal guns would cost more, and that would further make them harder for a criminal to get a hold of.

    You and I agree that guns should be kept out of the hands of the unstable and violent felons, we just disagree on how to do it. I'm not disagreeing with your goal, I'm disagreeing with your strategy.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 04:36 PM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?
    What the hell are you talking about?

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