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Thread: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Interesting metaphor; interesting logic. I know we have lost sight of what our legislature is all about. The primary purpose of government is to make laws that solve societal problems. Not everything is a compromise.
    How would universal background checks have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting?

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post

    I dont want to be raped!
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    How would universal background checks have prevented the Sandy Hook shooting?
    Its not just about Sandy Hook its about gun violence in general and this.
    Gun Show: Undercover - YouTube

    And stopping felons and people mentally unstable from getting guns, and making it tougher for them to acquire guns.


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Its not just about Sandy Hook...
    I know, it's just that Sandy Hook is at the forfront because Obama is still in front of the media saying "shame on us if we forgot" referring to Sandy Hook and why we should pass these bills. So that's why I ask, and I would appreciate an answer. How would universal background checks have prevented Sandy Hook?

    How would universal background checks have prevented the CO theater shooting?

    How would universal background checks have prevented the OR mall shooting?

    How does it stop someone who already owns a gun? How does it stop someone with a criminal mind who can pass NICS?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    ....its about gun violence in general...
    Keep in mind that we do want some level of gun-violence, like a woman defending against a rapist. The term "gun violence" is misleading.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    That's just good undercover work. I hope all the offenders are charged accordingly. That video doesn't justify more laws, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    And stopping felons and people mentally unstable from getting guns, and making it tougher for them to acquire guns.
    Walk me though it, if you would. I'm genuinely interested in how you understand this will work.

    Let's say I have a gun to sell to a friend. He and I agree on a price, and it's time to make the transaction. What happens?

    The way it works right now in SD is: He gives me cash, I give him the gun, and that's it. How would this new law stop that kind of transaction?
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 02:48 AM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/harry-reid-joe-manchin-pat-toomey-89806.html#ixzz2Q1zLs09

    I can agree with this. Universal Background checks seems like common sense and a good step forward for this country.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]


    Its only common sense that its not a good idea to sell guns with no questions asked at gun shows in 40 states, many of these guns are then being carried into cities with stricter gun laws and sold on the street.
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Will this bill ever make it to the floor for a vote though?
    They are supposed to have a vote on Thursday on whether to bring it to the floor.

    Threat to Block Debate on Guns Appears to Fade in Senate

    "Several Senate Republicans said Tuesday that they would not participate in a filibuster of the first major gun control bill since 1993, as Democrats appeared on the verge of overcoming a blockade threatened by a group of conservatives before a word of debate on the measure was uttered.

    Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader, said he would schedule an initial showdown vote for Thursday. If backers of the measure can corral at least 60 votes, the Senate will begin consideration of a series of gun safety proposals — strongly supported by President Obama — that would still face a long and difficult journey across the Senate floor.

    The bill, which would increase penalties for illegal gun purchase and greatly expand background checks on gun buyers, would again need 60 votes to end the ensuing debate after consideration of contentious amendments, including a renewal of the assault weapons ban. Should it cross that very high hurdle, 51 votes would be needed to get to final passage. Even with Democrats controlling 55 seats, no majority was assured given the resistance of some Democrats from more conservative states who face re-election campaigns next year.

    Even as Mr. Reid scheduled a vote, Senators Joe Manchin III, Democrat of West Virginia, and Patrick J. Toomey, Republican of Pennsylvania were very near a deal that would most likely serve as an amendment replacing the background check piece of the measure that Mr. Reid is seeking a vote on. Their measure, which would almost certainly appeal to a broader base of members than the one now at the heart of the debate, would include fewer gun buyers in newly expanded checks, but allow for the record keeping that many Republicans have opposed. The two were expected to announce a deal Wednesday. Mr. Manchin briefed Mr. Reid late Tuesday.

    Still, eking out the first 60 votes would represent momentum for the bill’s supporters in the Senate, and an egg-on-the-face moment for those Republican senators, led by some younger conservatives, who chose to highlight their efforts to kill the bill before debate, a procedural move usually done more stealthily."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/10/us...bill.html?_r=0
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I know, it's just that Sandy Hook is at the forfront because Obama is still in front of the media saying "shame on us if we forgot" referring to Sandy Hook and why we should pass these bills. So that's why I ask, and I would appreciate an answer. How would universal background checks have prevented Sandy Hook?
    It wouldnt have since Lanza's mother bought the guns.


    How would universal background checks have prevented the CO theater shooting?
    Well saying Holmes was reported to police from Dr. Fenton that he was a threat to the public and mentally unstable it could of been stopped through a background check.

    How would universal background checks have prevented the OR mall shooting?
    Well saying the weapon was stolen it wouldnt

    How does it stop someone who already owns a gun?
    It wouldnt


    Keep in mind that we do want some level of gun-violence, like a woman defending against a rapist. The term "gun violence" is misleading.
    I agree gun violence can be seen as a "positive" thing in self defense. But i dont want to get into an argument about semantics.


    That's just good undercover work. I hope all the offenders are charged accordingly.
    All of that is legal.

    That video doesn't justify more laws, though.
    Why not? Why wouldnt a background checks be justified?


    Walk me though it, if you would. I'm genuinely interested in how you understand this will work.

    Let's say I have a gun to sell to a friend. He and I agree on a price, and it's time to make the transaction. What happens?

    The way it works right now in SD is: He gives me cash, I give him the gun, and that's it. How would this new law stop that kind of transaction?
    It wouldt.


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why not? Why wouldn't a background checks be justified?
    Once the buyer says, in any way, that they wouldn't pass an NICS, from that moment on it's a felony to sell to them. At 2:14 in your YouTube video, the vendor who said "I don't care" crossed the line and became a criminal.

    You were not showing a video of accepted practice, you showed a video of private sellers braking existing law.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 03:37 AM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Once the buyer says, in any way, that they wouldn't pass an NICS, from that moment on it's a felony to sell to them.

    You were not showing a video of accepted practice, you showed a video of private sellers braking existing law.
    No it is not. Its legal its called the gun show loophole.


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    No it is not. Its legal its called the gun show loophole.
    It is illegal and your own video even says it's illegal:

    9.jpg

    No one, not you or me or anyone at a gun show, is allowed to knowingly sell to criminals. The undercover investigator said "I probably couldn't pass [NICS] anyway..." and the vendor responds with "I don't car". That vendor was braking existing law. Additionally, the vendor then says "I wouldn't pass it either, bud". So here you have a vendor who couldn't pass NICS selling guns to a customer who says he couldn't pass NICS.

    The answer is to make an example out of people who knowingly sell to criminals.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-10-13 at 03:49 AM.

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