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Thread: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

  1. #101
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    FFL have to use ATF form 4473 to conduct a transfer, and that creates a registry, so that's not acceptable.
    Only to the far right.


    Just do that in the first place to test private sellers if they're selling to people who they think may not pass a NICS and forget all about any kind of new law then.
    They've already done that, its why police and Mayors decided a law was needed to prevent it.
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    the far wrong thinks this will be more successful in stopping mopes from getting guns than the war on drugs has been in stopping people smoking reefer



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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What's in the deal for pro-gun? What are we getting that we didn't have before? Anti-gun gets background checks, and pro-gun gets... assault rifles?....national reciprocity for CCW permits?....elimination of some gun-free zones?....silencers without any paperwork? What?
    The only thing I have heard is the background checks on all commercial setting sales.

  4. #104
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Government has too much power, which it has already abused, as far as determining who are “mentally unstable and felons” for the purpose of denying a basic Constitutional right, which the Constitution asserts as belong to all of “the people”, without any stated exception for “mentally unstable and felons”.
    Sooo its okay for "mentally unstable people" to have firearms at will?


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?
    "First, you beat them to death with political correctness. Then, you accuse them of every vile thing on earth and spread it across the media. Finally, you point out that they are old, white, and reactionary, they don't pay their fair share, and they hide money somewhere. That ought to do it."



  6. #106
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Background checks don't touch the ways criminals get their guns.
    "Between 2002 and 2005, more than 400 guns legally purchased at gun shows from licensed dealers in the city of Richmond, Virginia, were later recovered in connection with criminal activity.
    The Department of Justice reports, "after reviewing hundreds of trace reports associated with guns used in crime recovered in the New Orleans area and interviewing known gang members and other criminals, ATF Special Agents identified area gun shows as a source used by local gang members and other criminals to obtain guns.
    ATF's Columbus Field Division conducted its anti-trafficking operations based on intelligence from Cleveland police that "many of the guns recovered in high-crime areas of the city had been purchased at local gun shows.
    many gun shows attracted large numbers of gang members from Mexico and California. They often bought large quantities of assault weapons and smuggled them into Mexico or transported them to California."
    http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0707/final.pdf

    And this is just from not doing background checks at gun shows..



    You and I agree that guns should be kept out of the hands of the unstable and violent felons, we just disagree on how to do it. I'm not disagreeing with your goal, I'm disagreeing with your strategy.
    What other logical legal strategy is there? Because its pretty clear that this "i think you might be a felon" law isnt working.


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    "Between 2002 and 2005, more than 400 guns legally purchased at gun shows from licensed dealers in the city of Richmond, Virginia, were later recovered in connection with criminal activity.
    The Department of Justice reports, "after reviewing hundreds of trace reports associated with guns used in crime recovered in the New Orleans area and interviewing known gang members and other criminals, ATF Special Agents identified area gun shows as a source used by local gang members and other criminals to obtain guns.
    ATF's Columbus Field Division conducted its anti-trafficking operations based on intelligence from Cleveland police that "many of the guns recovered in high-crime areas of the city had been purchased at local gun shows.
    many gun shows attracted large numbers of gang members from Mexico and California. They often bought large quantities of assault weapons and smuggled them into Mexico or transported them to California."
    http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0707/final.pdf

    And this is just from not doing background checks at gun shows..




    What other logical legal strategy is there? Because its pretty clear that this "i think you might be a felon" law isnt working.
    Make federal guidelines for state CCW and require the CCW to posses, buy or sell any gun. The Federal CCW will check the permit holder though the NICS every month rather a gun is bought or not. The permit is to be shall-issue, require a 16hr familiarity course to include range qualification, and knowledge test.

    No CCW, no gun.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-11-13 at 01:33 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Make federal guidelines for a CCW and require the CCW to posses, buy or sell a gun.
    WE already have those.


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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    WE already have those.
    No we don't.

    Currently every state just makes up their own rules. There are no federal guidelines. States enter into Reciprocity agreements with each other at-will. My driver's licence followes federal guidelines and therefore is honored in every state. My South Dakota CCW dose not, and is not honored in every other state. In order to carry while visiting family in OH, I had to get a Utah non-resident CCW because OH honors Utah but not SD. I've never been to Utah in my life but I had to get their permit in order to carry in Ohio. WTF? In contrast all states honor my SD drivers licence. I don't have to worry about another state having reciprocity with my state in order to drive there. All states follow the same federal guidelines and therefore honor every other state's licence. That's how it should be with CCWs.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-11-13 at 01:43 AM.

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    Re: Joe Manchin says on verge of gun deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No we don't.

    Currently every state just makes up their own rules. There are no federal guidelines.
    Yes we do. Gun control act of 1968, LEOSA


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