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Thread: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    It's not how I would have chosen to do it, but I'm glad to see that the politicians are finally starting to talk seriously about cutting social security spending.

    Everyone else in the country is going to have to tighten their belts a little bit and give up some government services if we're going to pay off the debt, senior citizens shouldn't be immune.
    I would agree with you about how they want to do it. But since Ryan has put out 3 plans now. Myself I tend to watch which one the Democrats bring up. As they tend to confuse what he has said over what he would like to do with Social Security. Which eventually there has to be some starting point they will have to agree upon.

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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    It's not how I would have chosen to do it, but I'm glad to see that the politicians are finally starting to talk seriously about cutting social security spending.

    Everyone else in the country is going to have to tighten their belts a little bit and give up some government services if we're going to pay off the debt, senior citizens shouldn't be immune.
    Payroll taxes destined for support of SS shouldn't be used to pay off the debt. SS hasn't used general fund money since the 40's, when it had been around long enough to build up a slight surplus. The SS Trust Fund has $2.6 trillion in it, SS is FAR from broke.
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Payroll taxes destined for support of SS shouldn't be used to pay off the debt. SS hasn't used general fund money since the 40's, when it had been around long enough to build up a slight surplus. The SS Trust Fund has $2.6 trillion in it, SS is FAR from broke.
    This is true looking at SS alone, yet it is frequently coupled with Medicare (yet not Medicaid?) and considered as part of a generic pool often referred to simply as "entitlements". Curiously the many other forms of low income based "entitlements" (welfare, in all of its many forms) are usually not included.

    Social Security History
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    This is true looking at SS alone, yet it is frequently coupled with Medicare (yet not Medicaid?) and considered as part of a generic pool often referred to simply as "entitlements". Curiously the many other forms of low income based "entitlements" (welfare, in all of its many forms) are usually not included.

    Social Security History
    Even Medicare was OK until Part D.
    Prescription drugs are killing us! LOL!


    PS
    I'm OK with whatever they want to call them as long as they keep them separate. SS and Medicare =/= welfare and Medicaid. SS and Medicare (combined) still take care of themselves. SS takes money out of the Trust Fund to pay for Medicare shortfalls. Not sure that's a good idea but, so far, that's the way they're doing it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 04-07-13 at 01:12 PM.
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Even Medicare was OK until Part D.
    Prescription drugs are killing us! LOL!


    PS
    I'm OK with whatever they want to call them as long as they keep them separate. SS and Medicare =/= welfare and Medicaid. SS and Medicare (combined) still take care of themselves. SS takes money out of the Trust Fund to pay for Medicare shortfalls. Not sure that's a good idea but, so far, that's the way they're doing it.
    Yep. The problem is that while SS/Medicare are paid in advance or "pay as you go" systems while the other "low income" entitlements are strictly funded by income redistribution (now 100% borrowed). We, as a nation, cannot continue to pretend that it is OK to spend at 24% of GDP and yet to only tax at 17% of GDP. We must honestly realize that 18% is effectively the maximum federal taxation level possible w/o harm to the private economy (host?) yet seem to insist upon a federal gov't (parasite?) that spends 33% to 40% more than that. One day (very soon?) we will be forced to deal with that fact.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Payroll taxes destined for support of SS shouldn't be used to pay off the debt. SS hasn't used general fund money since the 40's, when it had been around long enough to build up a slight surplus. The SS Trust Fund has $2.6 trillion in it, SS is FAR from broke.
    The social security 'trust fund' is a myth. That money isn't sitting around somewhere waiting to be used, it's just money that one part of the government owes another part. If social security starts dipping into the trust fund, that money has to come out of the general budget.

    All in all, I think it's a really stupid idea to treat social security as some sort of special thing with its own money and its own taxes and it's this sacred cow we aren't allowed to touch. It should just be lumped in with the rest of the budget and taxes. And if we're serious about paying off the debt, it's one of our largest sources of spending, so it needs to be cut along with everything else.
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    The social security 'trust fund' is a myth. That money isn't sitting around somewhere waiting to be used, it's just money that one part of the government owes another part. If social security starts dipping into the trust fund, that money has to come out of the general budget.

    All in all, I think it's a really stupid idea to treat social security as some sort of special thing with its own money and its own taxes and it's this sacred cow we aren't allowed to touch. It should just be lumped in with the rest of the budget and taxes. And if we're serious about paying off the debt, it's one of our largest sources of spending, so it needs to be cut along with everything else.
    I suggest you check Federal laws and regulations - especially those concerned with the SSA and how it and payroll taxes work. The SS Trust Fund is full of T-bills that are just as valid as any dollar bill in your pocket.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I suggest you check Federal laws and regulations - especially those concerned with the SSA and how it and payroll taxes work.
    Rather than making vague allusions to things, why don't you just come right out and say what you mean. What specifically that I said do you think is incorrect?
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Rather than making vague allusions to things, why don't you just come right out and say what you mean. What specifically that I said do you think is incorrect?
    I just did. The Trust Fund is not a "myth", it holds several trillion dollars worth of T-bills.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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    Re: Official: Obama Proposes Cuts to Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I just did. The Trust Fund is not a "myth", it holds several trillion dollars worth of T-bills.
    Right, which as I pointed out, is just the government owing itself money. If the social security administration ever wants to use that money, it has to come from the general budget. It's not just sitting in a bank vault somewhere for the SSA to use.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

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