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Thread: Wussification of America

  1. #201
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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It appears that the factors uniting people who manage to be successful via academics despite poverty and being surrounded by other poor people is having a parent, relative or other mentor who cared about the child and encouraged, taught and guided him/her to consider education important, provided an environment that enabled the child to learn to concentrate and work on their studies, and an expectation that the child will succeed. This may be easier in a two parent household, but that is not a requirement. It does require someone who is caring and stable enough to invest the required time and energy.

    The reality is that not every child is that lucky. That is a fact that schools must address, Ideally, schools should provide the required guidance and environment for students to succeed even when they don't get much help at home. I agree that children need to be pushed and encouraged to be successful, that does not mean that labelling them as losers or treating them harshly is likely to be effective. Yes, a parent angry about bad grades motivates some kids to do better, but when it is excessive and it isn't backed up with encouragement and an environment that facilitates concentration and work, it just creates hostility and rebellion. In general, poor kids are exposed to plenty of anger, violence, and insults at home. There are many good reasons why informed educators are trying to eliminate old fashioned hostility, anger, abuse, rote learning, and stereotyping from the education system, one is that those tactics never actually worked that well.
    The first paragraph is spot on. The key for both Dr. Carson and me was that our mothers both did an excellent job of teaching us the value of education, despite neither of them being well-educated themselves. If you look at the average GPA and unemployment, it's not so hard to identify that this is the major difference in cultures. Asian parents are much more likely to push their kids academically than black parents, which is something that should be addressed.

    So, my follow-on question is why in the heck is this so hard for people to see and/or apply? By the time you're old enough to create a child, you should be able to look back and analyze what your parents did right and wrong in raising you. Moreover, if you honestly love your kids, you'll do what's necessary to guide them into a better life than your own.

    This is where I get into Americans becoming wussies. We've been continually taking away the power of the school system to push for academic performance and proper behavior, especially when the kids do have sorry *** parents. The disciplinary actions for misbehaving are a joke, especially at inner city schools. Unfortunately, this is where you have plenty of hoodlums who, IMO, need a boot camp approach to learn how to respect and be responsible. We need to quit tolerating parents not teaching this to their kids. In particular, the black community is by far the worst on average at teaching respect and responsibility to the next generation. This is where political correctness, especially the stupid automated racism accusations, need to be ignored.
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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The left is obsessed with "hypocrisy" - it's as if cognitive development froze in adolescence.

    Nonetheless, some know a good basketball program when they see it. Believing that you'd get more out of a Duke team by screaming at it is like believing you'd get more flavor out of a fine filet mignon by covering it with Heinz 57.
    No, the right is obsessed with politicizing their personal lives as a cudgel to attack liberals for "destroying" marriage and to propagate homophobia, which opens up conservatives to the obvious charge of hypocrisy since all of them are either serial divorcees, cads, and often latent

    Live by politicizing your personal life, die by it.

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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think most children who grew in a single parent household would disagree with that. I believe the opposite - kids who grow up in a mother-only household tend to have to fend for themselves sooner than most.
    This depends heavily on how hard the single parent tries to be involved with their kids. In my case, it's true that I took on responsibilities at a younger age since my sibling is 6 years younger than me. That's because my mother had her focus on us when she wasn't at work. However, a lot of the single mothers in the inner city don't exactly guide their kids very well and they have over a 70% rate of kids born out of wedlock.

    To give you a perfect example of the latter case, I was just up at the basketball court yesterday. As it got dark, the only others shooting there besides me were four black boys between the ages of 8 and 12. I'm listening to these boys referring the girls as the b-word and talking like wanna-be gangsters. Finally, I went over and spoke up to them as soon as I heard one of them say "nah, he went to go steal sometin', and if he don't give me none I'm gonna snitch on his ***", referring to a boy who had left 10 minutes prior. I told all four of them, "You better stay out of that kind of trouble and avoid being around idiots who steal if you want to get anywhere in life. Furthermore, you need to work on the way to talk, in regards to both your grammar and respectfulness, if you want to get somewhere. I recommend when you go home looking up Dr. Ben Carson and try modeling yourself after him instead of thinking you're going to be the next gangster-like celebrity." They then asked if I was a cop and quieted down until they left 15 minutes later.

    To summarize, even a single parent should be able to keep their kids from roaming the streets and becoming a juvenile delinquent.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    I agree with Bolling's point yesterday about Americans becoming wussies and political correctness being a major source.

    There's the sense of entitlement since we don't let kid's experience failure nowadays. That includes things from not letting kids fail at school when their results are insufficient to handing out participation trophies. Some schools are even banning sporting activities to prevent anyone from feeling like a loser.

    We surrender to just about any complaint, rather that seeing if any of the responsibility falls on the complainant. For example, schools are removing a cross or picture of Jesus if one or two people complain, even if a hundred want it there. Someone needs to speak up and tell them to ignore it if they don't like it.

    You might say "the older generation always says the younger is worse." However, the upward trends for the numbers in divorce, kids born out of wedlock, government handouts, obesity, average age people live with parents until, etc. speak for themselves.

    What will it take to get society to acknowledge these mistakes and fix them? Feel free to add more.

    Eric Bolling: Mike Rice Firing Symbol Of 'The Wussification Of American Men' (VIDEO)
    Oh, you're talking about the liberalism of America.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post

    No, the right is obsessed with politicizing their personal lives as a cudgel to attack liberals for "destroying" marriage and to propagate homophobia, which opens up conservatives to the obvious charge of hypocrisy since all of them are either serial divorcees, cads, and often latent

    Live by politicizing your personal life, die by it.
    Whoooo, looks who's talking, Progressives parade their lives down Main Street San Francisco showing their Pride. Nothing more political than that.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    The first paragraph is spot on. The key for both Dr. Carson and me was that our mothers both did an excellent job of teaching us the value of education, despite neither of them being well-educated themselves. If you look at the average GPA and unemployment, it's not so hard to identify that this is the major difference in cultures. Asian parents are much more likely to push their kids academically than black parents, which is something that should be addressed.

    So, my follow-on question is why in the heck is this so hard for people to see and/or apply? By the time you're old enough to create a child, you should be able to look back and analyze what your parents did right and wrong in raising you. Moreover, if you honestly love your kids, you'll do what's necessary to guide them into a better life than your own.

    This is where I get into Americans becoming wussies. We've been continually taking away the power of the school system to push for academic performance and proper behavior, especially when the kids do have sorry *** parents. The disciplinary actions for misbehaving are a joke, especially at inner city schools. Unfortunately, this is where you have plenty of hoodlums who, IMO, need a boot camp approach to learn how to respect and be responsible. We need to quit tolerating parents not teaching this to their kids. In particular, the black community is by far the worst on average at teaching respect and responsibility to the next generation. This is where political correctness, especially the stupid automated racism accusations, need to be ignored.
    Why is it hard to apply? Damaged people who have not been exposed to healthier familly interactions tend to repeat their parent's mistakes, even when a part of them knows better and wants better.

    I am not much of a proponent of boot camps and harsh punishment for most situations. That teaches people to have fear of the school system. It may stop undesirable behavior for awhile, but it doesn't motivate kids to want to improve themselves and it can inspire rebellion. The situation gets even stickier when it is white teachers doing it to minority kids.

    I don't think there is a practical or ethical way to force parents to do a better job. In my view, schools need to be realistic about the fact that they have to do work that has traditionally been the parent's job. To prevent that from being an ongoing and growing problem, it is important that schools teach kids about the responsibilities and challenges of parenthood and how to avoid it until one is ready. There have been very effective programs that involve the kid carrying a 15 lb sack of flour or a special doll that cries and wets regularly to get a feel for the burden.

    A little historic context should be considered. Before this century, children were not usually raised in a houselhold with just two parents and a couple of siblings. More likely they had uncles or grandparents in the home as well as many sibliings at a variety of ages. Even if they were lucky enough to go to school, they didn't come home afterwards to an empty house. Instead they would have a job, work on the familly farm or help with household chores. The point is that kids were raised by a community of people, not just their two parents. This community would pick up the slack when the parents weren't around. Ask an older person (over 70) and they will tell you that they would routinely encounter adults in the neighborhood who promised to report their bad deeds to their parents. That kind of opportunity for children to interact with adults and be watched over by a community is rare these days. That is one of the reasons schools need to more involved in children's learning beyond just teaching reading and writing etc. They also need to teach proper behavior and how to pay attention, focus and concentrate on a task. Many people think those abilities are an innate part of one's character. In my opinion they are skills that need to be learned.

    I am not saying that bad behavior should be tolerated at school, I think that setting expectations of good behavior and having a consistent response is important. But discipline doesn't need to be harsh and cruel to be effective. Harsh punishment and insults are often more about the teacher's frustration and anger than about helping the child learn. Praising and rewarding good behavior, while not accepting bad behavior, is proven to be the most effective method of training a dog or a child.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-10-13 at 12:59 AM.

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    Re: Wussification of America

    Since we did abusing young adults become alright?


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    Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Since we did abusing young adults become alright?
    You know, that's why I jumped into this topic originally, because there is a legitimate point to be made about the country becoming a bunch of wusses with no back bone. But then, the example used is of a coach that is legitimately abusing his players.

    Seriously, scream your a$$ off, call them names, get in their faces, whatever... But kicking and throwing things at the players, that's crossing a line.

    I don't get the obsession with football to the point where like the Sandusky thing, they KNEW what he was doing for YEARS, and did nothing cause he was winning at a F}*!#|NG GAME!!!

    Now, not sure who to blame exactly for the country becoming wussified, but I suspect that it comes from a generation of absent fathers and overbearing mothers... And I'm sure it's a much more complex issue than just that.

    But even saying what I would want to say to further elaborate on that is detracted from the fact that, this is ultimately a topic of a coach being legitimately, and possibly even criminally abusive, and there's no real justification. Though, I suppose you could argue they wanted to play and signed up, maybe but it's not like the players CHOOSE a coach (in most cases).

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    Re: Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    You know, that's why I jumped into this topic originally, because there is a legitimate point to be made about the country becoming a bunch of wusses with no back bone. But then, the example used is of a coach that is legitimately abusing his players.

    Seriously, scream your a$$ off, call them names, get in their faces, whatever... But kicking and throwing things at the players, that's crossing a line.

    I don't get the obsession with football to the point where like the Sandusky thing, they KNEW what he was doing for YEARS, and did nothing cause he was winning at a F}*!#|NG GAME!!!

    Now, not sure who to blame exactly for the country becoming wussified, but I suspect that it comes from a generation of absent fathers and overbearing mothers... And I'm sure it's a much more complex issue than just that.

    But even saying what I would want to say to further elaborate on that is detracted from the fact that, this is ultimately a topic of a coach being legitimately, and possibly even criminally abusive, and there's no real justification. Though, I suppose you could argue they wanted to play and signed up, maybe but it's not like the players CHOOSE a coach (in most cases).
    For the 2nd or 3rd time, this thread is not to be focused on the coach. It's to discuss how and why the country is full of wussies.

    For example, is it going to take a miracle technological device, like one of those belts that make your gut flinch, to get this nation full of fatties back in shape? Just for icing on the cake, you see fat people complain or even sue if told they're fat or not given the same privileges as a normal weight person.
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

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    Wussification of America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathematician View Post
    For the 2nd or 3rd time, this thread is not to be focused on the coach. It's to discuss how and why the country is full of wussies.

    For example, is it going to take a miracle technological device, like one of those belts that make your gut flinch, to get this nation full of fatties back in shape? Just for icing on the cake, you see fat people complain or even sue if told they're fat or not given the same privileges as a normal weight person.
    I accept that this was your intention, but the example chosen to demonstrate that point was not appropriate to the point.

    As for why the wussies?

    1- family life; if a child is coddled and spoiled their entire life, how would you expect them to grow into responsible and self-sufficient adults?

    2- estrogen mimicking chemicals in food containers. Most plastics contain BPA, which mimics estrogen on the body and makes men more feminine and hyper-feminizes women.

    3- education; we are at a point where schools are banning barbaric activities like tag and dodgeball...

    As for fatness, a large factor in the obesity has to do with corn subsidies, and the level of sugar in the average persons diet... It's nearing a point of toxic levels of sugar / carbs that a majority are consuming. Add to that, people can get by with a sedentary lifestyle.

    Add to that that the RDA of most vitamins are ridiculously low. Take vitamin c, the RDA of vitamin c, as example, is at the level that is what is necessary to prevent scurvy (and still people are barely keeping up to that).

    What other factors could come into play?? This is a complex issue afterall...

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