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Thread: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

  1. #51
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    From your report dudette:

    "The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012–2022 period (see Table 2, following the text); that amount represents a gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources)."
    Point being?

    From the previously quoted article: $940 billion bill would be the biggest change to domestic policy in a generation. The rich and the health industry would pick up most of the tab.

    Proves that the numbers have changed since 2010.
    Last edited by GottaGo; 04-03-13 at 09:00 PM.
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Point being?
    Same point I made originally, that most of the cost of health care reform is paid for by the wealthy and savings from other new policies.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I doubt this lawsuit goes anywhere. Contrary to what the summary states at GovTracks.us, the chronology of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590) as outlined at the Library of Congress clearly indicates that the bill did, in fact, originate in the House and was introduced and sponsored by Rep. Charles Rangel on September 17, 2009.
    why did you quote me in your post?

    i've already explained that it did originate in the house... all shell bell originate in the House

    it started out as something other than obamacare, the senate changed it to obamacare... and then ran it though the house as reconciliation.


    Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    There are 7 versions of Bill Number H.R.3590 for the 111th Congress. Usually, the last item is the most recent.
    1 . Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (Introduced in House - IH)[H.R.3590.IH][PDF]
    2 . Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (Engrossed in House [Passed House] - EH)[H.R.3590.EH][PDF]
    3 . Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009 (Placed on Calendar Senate - PCS)[H.R.3590.PCS][PDF]
    4 . Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Amendment in Senate - AS)[H.R.3590.AS][PDF]
    5 . Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Print - PP)[H.R.3590.PP][PDF]
    6 . Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Engrossed Amendment Senate - EAS)[H.R.3590.EAS][PDF]
    7 . Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Enrolled Bill [Final as Passed Both House and Senate] - ENR)[H.R.3590.ENR][PDF]

    personally, i think they remain true to the letter of the Constitution, but give a big middle finger to the spirit..... and lawmakers are want to do.

  4. #54
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Same point I made originally, that most of the cost of health care reform is paid for by the wealthy and savings from other new policies.
    I edited my post as you were replying, with a quote directly from the old quoted article.

    $940 billion bill would be the biggest change to domestic policy in a generation. The rich and the health industry would pick up most of the tab.

    The new numbers show the revised cost, and does not state it will be financed by the ever elusive group, the 'rich'.
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    “Obamacare” looks increasingly inevitable, but one lawsuit making its way through the court system could pull the plug on the sweeping federal health care law. A challenge filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation contends that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional because the bill originated in the Senate, not the House. Under the Origination Clause of the Constitution, all bills raising revenue must begin in the House Read more: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill 'Obamacare' - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
    Given that Boehner has thrown his hands in the air and given the Senate the lead on budget bills so anything passed would have 'started' in the Senate, I'd say the lawsuit is grasping at straws.

    But high priced lawyers have kids with crooked teeth too so I can't fault them for wanting to milk this if they can...

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I edited my post as you were replying, with a quote directly from the old quoted article.

    $940 billion bill would be the biggest change to domestic policy in a generation. The rich and the health industry would pick up most of the tab.

    The new numbers show the revised cost, and does not state it will be financed by the ever elusive group, the 'rich'.


    Where does it say it will be paid for by the working class.

    And, repealing ACA as proposed by the GOP in HR 6079 would increase, not decrease the deficit.

    Here is the most recent (2012) cost estimate from the CBO if Congress were to repeal ACA:

    What Is the Impact of Repealing the ACA on the Federal Budget?

    "Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period. Specifically, we estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by $890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion between 2013 and 2022, thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period."
    CBO | Letter to the Honorable John Boehner providing an estimate for H.R. 6079, the Repeal of Obamacare Act
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Where does it say it will be paid for by the working class.

    And, repealing ACA as proposed by the GOP in HR 6079 would increase, not decrease the deficit.

    Here is the most recent (2012) cost estimate from the CBO if Congress were to repeal ACA:

    What Is the Impact of Repealing the ACA on the Federal Budget?

    "Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period. Specifically, we estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by $890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion between 2013 and 2022, thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period."
    CBO | Letter to the Honorable John Boehner providing an estimate for H.R. 6079, the Repeal of Obamacare Act
    You are trying to gild your lily with that declaration. The part you left out with emphasis added:

    Why Are These Estimates Uncertain?

    Projections of the budgetary impact of H.R. 6079 are quite uncertain because they are based, in large part, on projections of the effects of the ACA, which are themselves highly uncertain. Assessing the effects of making broad changes in the nation’s health care and health insurance systems requires estimates of a broad array of technical, behavioral, and economic factors. Separating the incremental effects of the provisions in the ACA that affect spending for ongoing programs and revenue streams becomes more uncertain as the time since enactment grows. The recent Supreme Court decision that essentially made the expansion of the Medicaid program a state option has also increased the uncertainty of the estimates. However, CBO and JCT, in consultation with outside experts, have devoted a great deal of care and effort to the analysis of health care legislation in the past few years, and the agencies have strived to develop estimates that are in the middle of the distribution of possible outcomes.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Where does it say it will be paid for by the working class.

    And, repealing ACA as proposed by the GOP in HR 6079 would increase, not decrease the deficit.

    Here is the most recent (2012) cost estimate from the CBO if Congress were to repeal ACA:

    What Is the Impact of Repealing the ACA on the Federal Budget?

    "Assuming that H.R. 6079 is enacted near the beginning of fiscal year 2013, CBO and JCT estimate that, on balance, the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting that legislation would cause a net increase in federal budget deficits of $109 billion over the 2013–2022 period. Specifically, we estimate that H.R. 6079 would reduce direct spending by $890 billion and reduce revenues by $1 trillion between 2013 and 2022, thus adding $109 billion to federal budget deficits over that period."
    CBO | Letter to the Honorable John Boehner providing an estimate for H.R. 6079, the Repeal of Obamacare Act
    Who do you think will be paying the majority of those penalties? Not the 'rich', since they already have health insurance, and likely something that exceeds the minimum requirements of the ACA. The majority will likely fall on the twenty-somethings who are too old to be on the parents policies, and have not yet settled into a career type job that provides those bennies. The other group will be the no-man's-land, making too much money to qualify for the subsidised insurance, but not enough to afford the insurance offered by employers, many of which are thinking about cutting back to employee only policies because of the premium increases.

    I have not once stated it should be repealed in it's entirety. There are certain parts of the ACA, which if enacted alone, would have been extremely beneficial, such as the Pre-existing clause (with those paying a higher premium for that coverage). The Insurance Mandate is a gift to the insurance industry, and has done nothing to increase the access points needed for that group being added. Go try and make a non-emergency appointment with a new doctor... 4-6 week wait. I've tried it.
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    You are trying to gild your lily with that declaration. The part you left out with emphasis added:

    That's always the case with estimates over a decade period.

    "However, CBO and JCT, in consultation with outside experts, have devoted a great deal of care and effort to the analysis of health care legislation in the past few years, and the agencies have strived to develop estimates that are in the middle of the distribution of possible outcomes."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Who do you think will be paying the majority of those penalties? Not the 'rich', since they already have health insurance, and likely something that exceeds the minimum requirements of the ACA. The majority will likely fall on the twenty-somethings who are too old to be on the parents policies, and have not yet settled into a career type job that provides those bennies. The other group will be the no-man's-land, making too much money to qualify for the subsidised insurance, but not enough to afford the insurance offered by employers, many of which are thinking about cutting back to employee only policies because of the premium increases.

    I have not once stated it should be repealed in it's entirety. There are certain parts of the ACA, which if enacted alone, would have been extremely beneficial, such as the Pre-existing clause (with those paying a higher premium for that coverage). The Insurance Mandate is a gift to the insurance industry, and has done nothing to increase the access points needed for that group being added. Go try and make a non-emergency appointment with a new doctor... 4-6 week wait. I've tried it.


    Thanks for sharing your hunch!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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