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Thread: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

  1. #41
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, the bill was crafted by the House in November of 2009.
    What bill? Not the one the Senate passed. That's a bit like claiming your Motel 6 originated in Ancient Egypt, because the Pyramids you bulldozed to clear the land had the same street address.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    The article is a wee bit out of date, from 2010. Many of the numbers have been revised by the CBO.

    And the ACA is far, far from 'healthcare reform', a misnomer of entertaining proportions. It is a mandate of insurance, it addresses nothing to actually 'reform' healthcare.


    Let's see the newer report from the CBO that states most of the cost is not paid by the wealthy and savings from medicare/medicaid reform?
    You also are ignoring that 40 million people have access to preventative health care that didn't have it before.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Let's see the newer report from the CBO that states most of the cost is not paid by the wealthy and savings from medicare/medicaid reform?
    You also are ignoring that 40 million people have access to preventative health care that didn't have it before.
    I don't do people's work for them, it is a well known fact that the CBO has changed the numbers several times. You want the numbers, go find them.

    They always had 'access', but now they have insurance. Those aren't the same thing.

    Did you know most hospitals and doctors have sliding scales for people without insurance?
    Did you know that most hospitals have payment plans available for those without insurance?
    Did you know that most Big Pharma companies have special programs for their drugs for low income people?
    Did you know that most pharmacies have programs for $3-4-5 perscriptions?
    Did you know that no additional access points have been created to service those 40 million people?

    What the ACA created was a new revenue flow into the General Fund, and the money can be used to shore up programs that fall short. You can't add 40 million people to an 'insurance policy' and not expect premiums to rise, and it's not just the 'rich' people paying the price, it's your average working person who will be paying it, along with employers, who will pass along their rising costs (both for the insurance and the administrative costs) along in price increases to the consumer.

    It is not 'healthcare reform', it is a mandated purchase of a private market product, and the winners are those 'evil' corporations. And who handed them that win?
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    I don't do people's work for them
    Then we'll go with the only report documented here.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Then we'll go with the only report documented here.
    Misinformation is plentiful. Have at it.
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Misinformation is plentiful. Have at it.
    Such is your unsubstantiated opinion anonymous internet dude.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    “Obamacare” looks increasingly inevitable, but one lawsuit making its way through the court system could pull the plug on the sweeping federal health care law.

    A challenge filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation contends that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional because the bill originated in the Senate, not the House. Under the Origination Clause of the Constitution, all bills raising revenue must begin in the House



    Read more: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill 'Obamacare' - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
    Quote Originally Posted by mtm1963 View Post
    they will loose.

    the bill was brought in the house first i believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by minnie616 View Post
    Yes, the bill was crafted by the House in November of 2009.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    yes, yes it was.... and it passed unanimously....416-0 in favor.

    ....but that was when it was called "Service Members Home Ownership Tax Act of 2009"

    the name and all the details were stripped by the Senate... Obamacare was then inserted.

    it was then sent back to the house as a reconciliation bill, instead of a conference bill ( to thwart another Senate vote and probable filibuster)


    I don't care who ya are, that's some shady dealing....
    I doubt this lawsuit goes anywhere. Contrary to what the summary states at GovTracks.us, the chronology of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (H.R. 3590) as outlined at the Library of Congress clearly indicates that the bill did, in fact, originate in the House and was introduced and sponsored by Rep. Charles Rangel on September 17, 2009.

    ALL ACTIONS:

    9/17/2009: Referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means.
    10/7/2009 2:35pm: Mr. Blumenauer moved to suspend the rules and pass the bill.
    10/7/2009 2:35pm: Considered under suspension of the rules. (consideration: CR H10550-10554)
    10/7/2009 2:35pm: DEBATE - The House proceeded with forty minutes of debate on H.R. 3590.
    10/7/2009 3:02pm: At the conclusion of debate, the Yeas and Nays were demanded and ordered. Pursuant to the provisions of clause 8, rule XX, the Chair announced that further proceedings on the motion would be postponed.
    10/8/2009 12:08pm: Considered as unfinished business. (consideration: CR H11126-11127)
    10/8/2009 12:15pm: On motion to suspend the rules and pass the bill Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: (2/3 required): 416 - 0 (Roll no. 768). (text: CR 10/7/2009 H10550)
    10/8/2009 12:15pm: Motion to reconsider laid on the table Agreed to without objection.
    10/8/2009: Received in the Senate. Read the first time. Placed on Senate Legislative Calendar under Read the First Time.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 04-02-13 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Such is your unsubstantiated opinion anonymous internet dude.
    Simple done, from the horses mouth....

    And that's dudette to you.

    CBO | Updated Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act
    Building block or stumbling block.... choose.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    From a February 2013 article titled:
    Three ways CBO expects health spending to change

    Posted by Sarah Kliff on February 5, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Budget nerds, rejoice! The Congressional Budget Office has just released its new budget outlook.
    <SNIP>
    1.
    Three million fewer Americans will receive health insurance from their employers.


    The CBO always expected that some Americans would lose their employer-health insurance under the Affordable Care Act, as some companies may direct their workers to the publicly-subsidized options available on the exchange. In this report though, they significantly increase that number, from 4 to 7 million.
    >SNIP>

    . 2.Slower health-care cost growth will cut $200 billion in entitlement spending.
    Health-care costs have grown slower as of late, at the same rate as the rest of the economy after years of growing faster. Some people think this slowdown is permanent, while others argue it’s temporary, a product of Americans cutting back on health care during the recession.
    The Congressional Budget Office, in its traditionally nonpartisan role, hasn’t taken sides in this health wonk battle. But in its just released economic outlook, it does project that this slowdown in health-care spending – no matter how long it lasts – will have some very real effects on our spending. Here’s their take (the bold emphasis my own):

    <SNIP>

    From the March 2010 baseline to the current baseline, such technical revisions have lowered estimates of federal spending for the two programs in 2020 by about $200 billion—by $126 billion for Medicare and by $78 billion for Medicaid, or by roughly 15 percent for each program.

    3. Employers will pay more fines for not providing insurance – but individuals will pay less.

    If fewer employers offer health insurance, as the CBO projects, that means that more will be subject to a fine for not providing coverage (this fine only exists for companies with 50 or more employees). The CBO now expects that employers will end up paying $13 billion more in fines for non-compliance with the Affordable Care Act.

    On the flip side, the CBO has revised down its expectations for how many people will pay the individual mandate fine, reducing that number by $11 billion.

    The reasoning there has to do with revised income projections. If Americans are earning less than previously thought, that means they’re more likely to qualify for a hardship exemption from the mandate.
    Three ways CBO expects health spending to change
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    Simple done, from the horses mouth....

    And that's dudette to you.

    CBO | Updated Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act
    From your report dudette:

    "The ACA’s provisions related to insurance coverage are now projected to have a net cost of $1,252 billion over the 2012–2022 period (see Table 2, following the text); that amount represents a gross cost to the federal government of $1,762 billion, offset in part by $510 billion in receipts and other budgetary effects (primarily revenues from penalties and other sources)."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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