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Thread: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

  1. #21
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    Did the House version of the ACA have the tax on wheelchairs and walkers?

    And if you read the Time Magazine article on the cost of health care and profit margin on wheelchairs and the like, you'll understand why the tax is a good idea.
    Allow yourself to become a little bit better educated on the issue, and then come back and contribute.

    5 Myths in Steven Brill's Opus on Health Costs--Part 1 - Forbes
    5 Myths in Steven Brill's "Bitter Pill" -- Part 2 - Forbes

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
    So a tax that is passed on to people who need durable medical devices is a good thing? I hope you never need one.
    See, here's the problem, you don't even know who is being taxed. I guess Fox News doesn't like to get into the details.

    Manufactures and importers of durable medical devices will be paying the 2.3% tax. Why? Because the government found out what an outrageous markup they typically charge their customers. The Times Magazine article broke down the durable medical device manufacturer's profit margin and showed how they should not have to raise their prices at all. Those using the tax as an excuse to raise prices are taking advantage of the sick and elderly who are unwilling participants in the health care market -- meaning no one wakes up and decides to go out and buy a durable medical device. When consumers come into that market, they have little choice but to pay the outrageous markup or suffer. Keep in mind that a lot of these elderly specific products are paid by.... dum-dum-dum... Medicare!! And even at the medicare price, they're still making a profit!!

    Before commenting further, I suggest reading the Times piece and get a better understanding of how durable medical device manufacture's and importers make billions and can easily afford a 2.3% tax that will go, in part, to the purchase of their products.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Allow yourself to become a little bit better educated on the issue, and then come back and contribute.

    5 Myths in Steven Brill's Opus on Health Costs--Part 1 - Forbes
    5 Myths in Steven Brill's "Bitter Pill" -- Part 2 - Forbes
    Some fair criticisms on the overall tone of the Brill piece and valid points about possible overreaction to the numbers, but NOTHING at all about the 2.3% durable medical device tax.

    So, it seems like you wanted to seem like you were making a point/comment about my post, but actually said nothing at all specifically related to my post and the 2.3% tax.

    I mean, anyone can google, and find a contrary opinion, but this Forbes article isn't even a debunking, just more context and background with some sources to POSSIBLE different numbers. The Forbe's piece was quite complimentary: Nevertheless, Mr. Brill has done a great public service in bringing this message to the attention of the general public with eye-opening concrete illustrations that left many readers shaking their heads in disbelief. The Forbe's piece serves to give additional perspective on the numbers in the Brill Piece. So, again, it seems like you only posted the links to seem smart, but didn't even bother to read them yourself. How embarrassing!!

    And thank you for this: As I concluded in my first post, Mr. Brill has nicely codified much of what is wrong with American health care.

    Yes, I agree.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    “Obamacare” looks increasingly inevitable, but one lawsuit making its way through the court system could pull the plug on the sweeping federal health care law.

    A challenge filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation contends that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional because the bill originated in the Senate, not the House. Under the Origination Clause of the Constitution, all bills raising revenue must begin in the House



    Read more: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill 'Obamacare' - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
    I will surely be keeping my fingers crossed, but I don't have much expectation that anything can kill that monstrosity.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    I will surely be keeping my fingers crossed, but I don't have much expectation that anything can kill that monstrosity.
    this won't but something will. Next year, 300 million people who don't have standing this year will have standing to sue and I am betting 2 or 3 of them will.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    Some fair criticisms on the overall tone of the Brill piece and valid points about possible overreaction to the numbers, but NOTHING at all about the 2.3% durable medical device tax.

    So, it seems like you wanted to seem like you were making a point/comment about my post, but actually said nothing at all specifically related to my post and the 2.3% tax.

    I mean, anyone can google, and find a contrary opinion, but this Forbes article isn't even a debunking, just more context and background with some sources to POSSIBLE different numbers. The Forbe's piece was quite complimentary: Nevertheless, Mr. Brill has done a great public service in bringing this message to the attention of the general public with eye-opening concrete illustrations that left many readers shaking their heads in disbelief. The Forbe's piece serves to give additional perspective on the numbers in the Brill Piece. So, again, it seems like you only posted the links to seem smart, but didn't even bother to read them yourself. How embarrassing!!

    And thank you for this: As I concluded in my first post, Mr. Brill has nicely codified much of what is wrong with American health care.

    Yes, I agree.
    Obviously. The article was good, but if that was the only thing you knew about healthcare is from his article, which your post sort of implied, I wanted to show you where that information was flawed.

    Part one was better then part 2, and at least for me it really tears his argument a part. It's hard to call 4000% markups greed when it only translates to a 2% profit margin on inpatient services. That obviously tells me that there is something else is the problem.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Obviously. The article was good, but if that was the only thing you knew about healthcare is from his article, which your post sort of implied, I wanted to show you where that information was flawed.

    Part one was better then part 2, and at least for me it really tears his argument a part. It's hard to call 4000% markups greed when it only translates to a 2% profit margin on inpatient services. That obviously tells me that there is something else is the problem.
    Nothing was torn up. Gimme a break.

    Most of the "facts" in the Forbe's piece were from the writer's own book. It was more a promotional piece than new information.


    I did a little research on the author and found out at least one of his books was financed with grants from the Searle Freedom Trust.

    I wouldn't call him a shill, but I would just allow the jury to hear about all his associations and incomes for writing article such as this.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    Nothing was torn up. Gimme a break.

    Most of the "facts" in the Forbe's piece were from the writer's own book. It was more a promotional piece than new information.


    I did a little research on the author and found out at least one of his books was financed with grants from the Searle Freedom Trust.

    I wouldn't call him a shill, but I would just allow the jury to hear about all his associations and incomes for writing article such as this.
    Well, if you would like to show me exactly where he was wrong on the issue? He explained it quite clearly, and consistently. I don't think it speaks for the entire country, but my mom works at a children's hospital and they markup just like all the other hospitals in the article and they posted a loss last year.

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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    “Obamacare” looks increasingly inevitable, but one lawsuit making its way through the court system could pull the plug on the sweeping federal health care law.

    A challenge filed by the Pacific Legal Foundation contends that the Affordable Care Act is unconstitutional because the bill originated in the Senate, not the House. Under the Origination Clause of the Constitution, all bills raising revenue must begin in the House



    Read more: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill 'Obamacare' - Washington Times
    Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
    the lawsuit will fail.....primarily because Obamacare was a "shell bill".....

    a shell bill is a bill passed by the House initially, but then the provisions of that bill are stripped out by the Senate and replaced with..welll.... whatever they want.

    Obamacare started in the House.... the House bill addressed tax break for military homeowners.
    the military homeowners tax breaks were stripped out of the bill when it reached the Senate, and Obamacare was inserted.


    and that,folks, is how you get around Constitutional provisions.... that's your federal government at work.

    who here is surprised they can't follow the letter or the spirit of the Constitution?...certainly not me.

  10. #30
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    Re: Lawsuit over health care tax could kill ‘Obamacare’

    Quote Originally Posted by mr4anarchy View Post
    Nothing was torn up. Gimme a break.

    Most of the "facts" in the Forbe's piece were from the writer's own book. It was more a promotional piece than new information.


    I did a little research on the author and found out at least one of his books was financed with grants from the Searle Freedom Trust.

    I wouldn't call him a shill, but I would just allow the jury to hear about all his associations and incomes for writing article such as this.
    Also, your putting the cart before the horse. The author is unlikely to have changed his argument from the time of writing the book to the time of the article, and if those numbers are the core of his argument. I don't see you suggesting that the numbers are wrong. If you want to know why the markup for non-insured are so high, here is why. Because the hospitals have to offer insurance companies "discounts" off their usual rates in exchange for coverage, so they just mark up the rates to show "discounts." A lot of times, hospitals absorb quite a bit of that difference in giving away free healthcare, which currently costs $41B a year. Add in $50B a year in tort costs, another $50B a year in defensive medicine practice, and $290B in costs as a result of noncompliance by patients (mostly diabetics for which there are profound consequences). That is correct, noncompliance by patients contributes nearly 50% more to healthcare costs then the profits of the entire pharmaceutical industry. I would also point out that Brill's own calculations showed that recovering 75% of hospital profits would only yield "savings" of $90B. Hospitals give away a third the amount of money in free healthcare as what they make in profits.

    And give me a break. If you want to read up on the guy, here ya go. I think you are trying to attack the man because you honestly don't know how to attack the argument.

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