NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam[W: 143]

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

American said:

At least they're demonstrating some logic, which your posts do not. We're all still waiting for you to substantiate a single thing you've said. You are ignoring what people are saying to you.

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last night he repeated the same post dozens of times-always demanding why we supported people owning "military style weapons" which he idiotically claimed HAVE NO OTHER PURPOSE besides mass murder.

He ignored dozens of responses and indeed a thread I started on the subject.

The far wrong left hates the NRA for its support of conservative candidates

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

American said:

They are the leader in gun safety, and the rest of what you wrote is a contradiction.

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Thats the laughable part. Most states with the strictest gun control laws requires an NRA certified safety course to get a gun permit.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

head of joaquin said:

NRA Certificate and



The sickness that is the NRA continues to be exposed.

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....so what's your point here? Plenty of people have NRA stuffs, most of them ain't looking to shoot up the place. You cannot take a statistical outlier and claim it has meaning to the whole of a group.

Do people take math and science anymore?

NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’s Ho

head of joaquin said:

So since some mass murderers don't use NRA shooting tips, it's wonderful that NRA provides the service to other mass murderers.

Boomsticklovers and their logic.

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Can you name the "several?" No? Didnt think so. Am I a mass murderer because I am an NRA member? Or shooter?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

stonewall50 said:

Can you name the "several?" No? Didnt think so. Am I a mass murderer because I am an NRA member? Or shooter?

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I can name Adam Lanza. Case closed.

But we get your position: you don't mind that the NRA helps train mass murderers to kill children, as long as can cling to you gun at night. It's down to that, isn't it?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

stonewall50 said:

1) did you skip political theory the day they taught communism? We live in America and pushing the use of a right is far from a "communist" motive. Are you just trying to paint them as communist? Because that is a glaring misunderstanding of what communism actually is. Communism doesn't own the trademark rights to the phrase, "for the masses," because...they don't believe in them. For the "masses" has been a phrase existent long before the invention and rise of communism. Talk to Plato, Machiavelli, Locke, Robespierre, and Burke. I'm sure you will find that they also used the phrase, and trying to nail something down as "communist" or "fascist" is a joke within American politics...because well...they have a concrete definition and existence in this world...and not within a right Wing organization. All of this comes from a Republican btw. You will never see me call a democrat a communist or fascist. I know what those words mean.

2) So you are saying the lobbyists pushing to fight future action is a bad idea for an organization that represents, for better or worse, the American gun owners and their rights? And now you are claiming that their claims that we were standing on the edge of the anti-gun cliff were false? All it took was but 1 incident and we were pushed ever so gingerly into the pit yet again. It seems that the concept of "ambition created to counter act ambition," went over your head. They pushed against the anti gun crowd who just waited for a tragedy to strike at our rights. If you don't see the logic behind being ready for the inevitable anti gun pushes...you are not paying attention.

3) So. Prove me wrong? What do you see from the anti- gun crowd? More legislation being pushed. Executive orders too. Government steps to void the 2nd or to limit it so that only the very rich can afford it.

4) What? Try English. Are you against the policy of innocent until proven guilty? Are you saying you should be required to prove that you are a legal gun owner any time you do anything firearms related...including learning proper safety.

5) What in the hell does keeping a record have to do with learning safety with a firearm? Given the number of accidents vs mass shootings only 1 person in this conversation seems to be suffering from paranoia. And. As stated. NRA being against record keeping is a foundation of one of their policy of being against registries. Good on them for not keeping records on than membership and receipts for safety classes. On top of this. What relevance does record keeping have for the NRA?

6) The only dogma I have seen has been the standard hate against the NRA.

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Did you skip reading comprehension? I said you use a commie term, nothing more. The Nra doesn't say anything about masses but promotes civilian marksmanship, wiggle and spin all you want.

Oh they don't push anything for the future, they have very nice offices on K-street to pay for, nice suits that cost more than most competition rifles and let us not forget wining and dining politicians even when there is no storm on the horizon. When the real fight looms, such as it really wasn't, they ramp up the calls for even more money. I know, i am a member.

You funny guy. When a liberal points to some numb nut politician, bill or fall from grace the knee jerk reaction is , "hey we ain't all like that", but we have a discussion on what is a RESPONSIBLE thing to do, and you knee jerk roll it into a call for a new law. point to where I said that? You once again ASSumed.

Try is stay rational... you prove yourself 'innocent' to CCW. you prove yourself 'innocent' to purchase a firearm in a retail store. Due to liability most every serious marksmanship school I can think of as some sort of backround check. I'd hate to see the humbub over a series of felons holding NRA certificates dated AFTER their felon conviction. Would punch a huge hole in the NRA credibility.

What the hell is the NRA denied Lanza until the certificate was found. I understand the NRA being against record keeping- though it smacks of the same reasons tax cheats and embezzlers prefer a little paper trail to a well documented one. Course your argument is shallow. The NRA proudly claims numbers trained, schools visited, numbers attending Youth/lady programs but seems reluctant to show any documentation. Recording who took what course violates no rights, it doesn't even mean the student owns a firearm. Pure smoke to claim other wise.

If the only dogma you see is against the NRA you have blinders on... eace

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Oh the NRA doesn't use 'for the masses' they promote civilian marksmanship. For the masses is commie.

The NRA 'fights' the anti 'gun' crowd even when the anti 'gun' crowd isn't hitting a lick. Back in the first term when there was no serious push on new restrictions the NRA kept a steady give us money drumbeat up because Obama MIGHT do something... :roll:

Ahhh the old 'they always' defense to create a bogus point to argue against... 'they' ALWAYS want new laws... Rather than being reasonable....got it!

Many years ago a rather angry man got nose to nose with me and said... ASSuming makes an ass out of you and me...you trying to make me an ass trainee??!! An odd assumption to make after so many folks declare laws only keep 'guns' out of the hands of law abiding citizens, the bad guys will ignore the laws... :shock:

You can be paranoid, but if you are that paranoid get private no certificate training, This is about cattle call 'classes' that issue certificates. I understand some thinking the basics of 'gun' handling can be book learned- if so then stay with that and avoid any paper trail, but when NRA Certified Instructors sign fancy pieces of paper in the name of the NRA a record would be prudent. When teaching 'the masses' how to use firearms the prudent do due diligence.

The dogma slaves just ASS-u-me and move on...

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Pushing pistol marksmanship on the masses is a long way from pushing pistol marksmanship for the masses.

Besides, no doubt this publication has a chapter on safety. I thought even the anti-gunners were at least pro-gun-safety.

NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’s Ho

head of joaquin said:

I can name Adam Lanza. Case closed.

But we get your position: you don't mind that the NRA helps train mass murderers to kill children, as long as can cling to you gun at night. It's down to that, isn't it?

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Case closed? How so? You have 1 irrelevant case...with barely a connection. Do you know what that is called? Circumstantial. How many honest hard working NON MASS MURDERING people have come out of NRA training? Thousands. That ISN'T circumstantial. That is relevant data. Your argument is not only erroneous, but lacking in facts and data, and based on emotional babbling.

Can't get over that you lost?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

head of joaquin said:

I can name Adam Lanza. Case closed.

But we get your position: you don't mind that the NRA helps train mass murderers to kill children, as long as can cling to you gun at night. It's down to that, isn't it?

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What do you suggest be done?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

TurtleDude said:

what is moronic is not knowing that some of the deadliest active shooters had no firearms experience but had extensive video game experience which used electronic gun Heath High School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Attorney General John Ashcroft claimed Carneal's proficient marksmanship was due to practice in violent video games.[13] you need to understand that I don't post stuff unless i have a factual basis. and again you get schooled

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Oh when you do use facts that mean something I do take note, but there are so few to note.

Did the Columbine kids practice with a variety of firearms?
Did the sandy hook guy practice with firearms?
did the DC 'snipers' practice with real firearms?
Did the Ft. Hood shooter practice with real firearms?

What is moronic is cherry picking the evidence and mislabeling an event... the Heath High School shooting caused 3 deaths and 5 wounded, tragic yes, but since then there have been 11 with fewer killed/wounded, 4 with the same casualty list, and 28 with MORE killed and wounded... I'd say your one example is neither 'some' or one of the most deadliest.

As far as what John Ashcroft 'claims' is responsible he never produces anything but his opinion. I see him as highly biased, the same way the many rightb wingers see the current AG as a political hack, Ashcroft just happens to be a right wing one. he produced no study to back his claim, just an opinion.

I'd say your lawyering must be all on paper and never in a court room where counterpoints are made because you don't seem to know the way to a school, much less how to school anyone...

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

apdst said:

Pushing pistol marksmanship on the masses is a long way from pushing pistol marksmanship for the masses.

Besides, no doubt this publication has a chapter on safety. I thought even the anti-gunners were at least pro-gun-safety.

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Not the point, my point is using the term 'masses' is commie, the NRA was created to promote civilian marksmanship, they never use the commie term masses.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Not the point, my point is using the term 'masses' is commie, the NRA was created to promote civilian marksmanship, they never use the commie term masses.

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Masses is a commie term? I'm quite sure that masses is a god bit older than Communism.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

apdst said:

Masses is a commie term? I'm quite sure that masses is a god bit older than Communism.

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Ahh but the Right Wing is found of quoting commies using the term. Most everything has an older form. but you deflect on what i said to start the quibbling from the Right wing- the NRA promotes civilian marksmanship, they NEVER claim to do anything for any masses....

Oh I forgot in your early post...the BS about even anti'gun' nuts should want firearm safety....

Dude, NOBODY said other wise, I do think the NRA should keep track of those they award certificates to and a back round check, like every school I know of does, is prudent and RESPONSIBLE. Who said the classes should end?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

So he must have followed that 'guide to pistol shooting' huh? That must be what caused the incident.

HOJFM

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Oh when you do use facts that mean something I do take note, but there are so few to note.

Did the Columbine kids practice with a variety of firearms?
Did the sandy hook guy practice with firearms?
did the DC 'snipers' practice with real firearms?
Did the Ft. Hood shooter practice with real firearms?

What is moronic is cherry picking the evidence and mislabeling an event... the Heath High School shooting caused 3 deaths and 5 wounded, tragic yes, but since then there have been 11 with fewer killed/wounded, 4 with the same casualty list, and 28 with MORE killed and wounded... I'd say your one example is neither 'some' or one of the most deadliest.

As far as what John Ashcroft 'claims' is responsible he never produces anything but his opinion. I see him as highly biased, the same way the many rightb wingers see the current AG as a political hack, Ashcroft just happens to be a right wing one. he produced no study to back his claim, just an opinion.

I'd say your lawyering must be all on paper and never in a court room where counterpoints are made because you don't seem to know the way to a school, much less how to school anyone...

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more gaping idiocy. par for the course.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Did you skip reading comprehension? I said you use a commie term, nothing more. The Nra doesn't say anything about masses but promotes civilian marksmanship, wiggle and spin all you want.

Oh they don't push anything for the future, they have very nice offices on K-street to pay for, nice suits that cost more than most competition rifles and let us not forget wining and dining politicians even when there is no storm on the horizon. When the real fight looms, such as it really wasn't, they ramp up the calls for even more money. I know, i am a member.

You funny guy. When a liberal points to some numb nut politician, bill or fall from grace the knee jerk reaction is , "hey we ain't all like that", but we have a discussion on what is a RESPONSIBLE thing to do, and you knee jerk roll it into a call for a new law. point to where I said that? You once again ASSumed.

Try is stay rational... you prove yourself 'innocent' to CCW. you prove yourself 'innocent' to purchase a firearm in a retail store. Due to liability most every serious marksmanship school I can think of as some sort of backround check. I'd hate to see the humbub over a series of felons holding NRA certificates dated AFTER their felon conviction. Would punch a huge hole in the NRA credibility.

What the hell is the NRA denied Lanza until the certificate was found. I understand the NRA being against record keeping- though it smacks of the same reasons tax cheats and embezzlers prefer a little paper trail to a well documented one. Course your argument is shallow. The NRA proudly claims numbers trained, schools visited, numbers attending Youth/lady programs but seems reluctant to show any documentation. Recording who took what course violates no rights, it doesn't even mean the student owns a firearm. Pure smoke to claim other wise.

If the only dogma you see is against the NRA you have blinders on... eace

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even more gaping idiocy. still mad that the NRA funds candidates who don't buy into the creeping crud of progressivism

who cares if Lanza had an NRA certificate. He probably had a driver's license too and used a car to get to the school.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Ahh but the Right Wing is found of quoting commies using the term. Most everything has an older form. but you deflect on what i said to start the quibbling from the Right wing- the NRA promotes civilian marksmanship, they NEVER claim to do anything for any masses....

Oh I forgot in your early post...the BS about even anti'gun' nuts should want firearm safety....

Dude, NOBODY said other wise, I do think the NRA should keep track of those they award certificates to and a back round check, like every school I know of does, is prudent and RESPONSIBLE. Who said the classes should end?

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I guess you aren't quite able to figure out that Lanza HAD NO RECORD OF ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY UNTIL HE WENT ON HIS MURDER SUICIDE spree. So what should the NRA have done and what difference would it have made?

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

Ahh but the Right Wing is found of quoting commies using the term. Most everything has an older form. but you deflect on what i said to start the quibbling from the Right wing- the NRA promotes civilian marksmanship, they NEVER claim to do anything for any masses....

Oh I forgot in your early post...the BS about even anti'gun' nuts should want firearm safety....

Dude, NOBODY said other wise, I do think the NRA should keep track of those they award certificates to and a back round check, like every school I know of does, is prudent and RESPONSIBLE. Who said the classes should end?

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What's that supposed to accomplish? Sounds to me like you're just hoping that that documentation will provide you with future political fodder so that you can carry on your agenda to strip Americans of their civil rights.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

VanceMack said:

So he must have followed that 'guide to pistol shooting' huh? That must be what caused the incident.

HOJFM

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He paid particular attention to the chapter that covered hosing down a school house.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

apdst said:

He paid particular attention to the chapter that covered hosing down a school house.

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that was the second to last chapter. The last chapter was

when you hear the sirens of the Po Po coming to arrest your sorry ass pull out the SIG, Stick it in your mouth and pull the trigger.

NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanz

apdst said:

He paid particular attention to the chapter that covered hosing down a school house.

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actually he was the worlds worst student. 1-he apparently didnt use 'pistols' and 2-dood went unhindered for over 10 minutes and only managed to shoot 20 kids. That's a rate of less than 1 every 30 seconds. You could just about be that effective with a black powder rifle.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

head of joaquin said:

NRA Certificate and



The sickness that is the NRA continues to be exposed.

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nice work, detective.... you have exposed the "sickness" that for 140 years has been public knowledge.

the NRA, since the 1870's, has put out guides to marksmanship, firearm safety, hunter safety, and self defense.

NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’s Ho

notquiteright said:

Did you skip reading comprehension? I said you use a commie term, nothing more. The Nra doesn't say anything about masses but promotes civilian marksmanship, wiggle and spin all you want.

Oh they don't push anything for the future, they have very nice offices on K-street to pay for, nice suits that cost more than most competition rifles and let us not forget wining and dining politicians even when there is no storm on the horizon. When the real fight looms, such as it really wasn't, they ramp up the calls for even more money. I know, i am a member.

You funny guy. When a liberal points to some numb nut politician, bill or fall from grace the knee jerk reaction is , "hey we ain't all like that", but we have a discussion on what is a RESPONSIBLE thing to do, and you knee jerk roll it into a call for a new law. point to where I said that? You once again ASSumed.

Try is stay rational... you prove yourself 'innocent' to CCW. you prove yourself 'innocent' to purchase a firearm in a retail store. Due to liability most every serious marksmanship school I can think of as some sort of backround check. I'd hate to see the humbub over a series of felons holding NRA certificates dated AFTER their felon conviction. Would punch a huge hole in the NRA credibility.

What the hell is the NRA denied Lanza until the certificate was found. I understand the NRA being against record keeping- though it smacks of the same reasons tax cheats and embezzlers prefer a little paper trail to a well documented one. Course your argument is shallow. The NRA proudly claims numbers trained, schools visited, numbers attending Youth/lady programs but seems reluctant to show any documentation. Recording who took what course violates no rights, it doesn't even mean the student owns a firearm. Pure smoke to claim other wise.

If the only dogma you see is against the NRA you have blinders on... eace

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1) Ironic comment from you. Within my paragraph lies the same response I am now apparently needing to spoon feed you: "for the masses," is not a "commie" term. The philosophers I quoted all existed prior to Karl Marx, and they ALL discussed things "for the masses." Machiavelli frequently referred to the masses in both the "Prince" and "The Discourses." He was a monarchist in favor of bringing back the old Roman Republic. Sorry if I laugh at your understanding of political philosophy...it is so misinformed and you refuse to listen. I recommend you take and read ALL the philosophers I mentioned above combined with Karl Marx. "Commie" won't mean what you think it does, and I also seriously doubt you have even read through all of Marx's "Communist Manifesto" anyway.

The part you really seem to be stuck on though isn't your lack of understanding of "commie" though. You also seem to be stuck on that whole NRA "not" being for the masses. It is. Because "for the masses" is a generic term and the NRA wants to promote civilian marksmanship, or the United States civilian population, that would be the "masses" of the United States. There is no wiggling or spinning going on bud. Im trying to educate you on political theory now so you may carry that knowledge with you and not continue to spout the nonsense you have posted far too many times already.

2) Lol!! Do you understand how lobbyists work? Wine and dining politicians is how it works bud. That way you make sure the right palms are greased when some dimwit like Feinstein decides to start yapping and an aggressive 2nd Term Obama to start writing EOs. No liberal will get their legislation pushed through because of those greased palms from the pro gun lobby. You don't like how lobbying works? Don't send your money to a lobbyist organization. You only have you to blame for sending your money there if you don't like them. And if you don't like the way they operate I suggest you not renew any membership you have if it is yearly, or tell them to remove your membership if you are a life member (that is what I am). It just sounds like crying on your end to me now that I understand you don't get how a lobbying organization works.

3) (eye roll) You understand that my statement about "legislating" something is that that is the only way for YOU to get what you want with background checks on SAFETY training. Short of that you are nothing but crying about the NRA NOT being redundant about background checks, and NOT violating a very important foundation of our legal system and assuming innocent before proven guilty, a principle you clearly have a problem with...which is sad because you wouldn't want to live in a nation where you are assumed guilty until proven innocent and proving your innocence means the burden of proof is on you rather than your accuser.

4) You "prove your innocence" to demonstrate a right. You are limited by the no "convicted felon" requirement, which is in fact a compromise and that is all within reason. You also must demonstrate your legality in purchasing your own firearm. You cannot be a felon and own a gun. Nor can you be declared mentally incapable of ownership. So basically the already established LAWs you mention already make it a redundancy for the NRA to background check members. Seriously. This whole concept is redundancy wrapped up in a giant repetitive circular 360 process. Why prove you are capable of legal gun ownership for training when you are not legally allowed to be an owner? Seems redundant. I also wonder why there has been no huge push for former NRA convicted felons?

5) As for the "NRA denial." A simple google search should take you 5 seconds if you are on a good connection. They are "denying" a "membership" relationship. Do you know what that means? He...nor his mother...were members. He had a "certificate" with his name on it. As you can find as a member...a template for these. I've also seen "NRA approved" certificates for clubs. So basically...a simple google search says the NRA certificate is.........irrelevant. If you wish to place blame on them...well I'm sorry but court of law would find the evidence circumstantial at best. So why relevance does the NRA have in reference to the Newtown Shooter?

Yes. I see anti NRA dogma in the guise of "responsibility." I don't like the NRA that much, but I see them for what they are. Lobbyists. Lobbyists are not hookers. They are the people who pay for the hookers...politicians. And in the case you are making against the NRA you have nothing rational or relevant.

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

TurtleDude said:

I guess you aren't quite able to figure out that Lanza HAD NO RECORD OF ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY UNTIL HE WENT ON HIS MURDER SUICIDE spree. So what should the NRA have done and what difference would it have made?

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In the three posts in a row, you manage to ignore the fact you don't use facts, you can't school anyone, and run back to a position I never claimed was otherwise.

Very 'persuasive' :roll:

back on topic, my point was the NRA attempted to deny any connection with Lanza which proved untrue. I also note many more professionally run schools do routine backround checks on students which the NRA doesn't do. They also keeps far better records on who attends and receives certificates than the NRA.

Nothing more, no take all the guns or punish the 'innocent'. none of the false arguments the radical Right throw up instead of discussing the issue at hand.

Class dismissed.... :mrgreen:

Re: NRA Certificate and “Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting” Found in Adam Lanza’

notquiteright said:

In the three posts in a row, you manage to ignore the fact you don't use facts, you can't school anyone, and run back to a position I never claimed was otherwise.

Very 'persuasive' :roll:

back on topic, my point was the NRA attempted to deny any connection with Lanza which proved untrue. I also note many more professionally run schools do routine backround checks on students which the NRA doesn't do. They also keeps far better records on who attends and receives certificates than the NRA.

Nothing more, no take all the guns or punish the 'innocent'. none of the false arguments the radical Right throw up instead of discussing the issue at hand.

Class dismissed.... :mrgreen:

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More idiocy. The NRA is not the issue here. And those who whine about the NRA are generally those who are mad that the NRA funnels money to candidates who don't suck on the socialist tit