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Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

bubbabgone said:
1) men controlled the property ... as opposed tooooooo? Whom?
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Everybody else. Is that the lost world you're longing to return to?


2) no need to jettison traditional marriage to accomodate any particular demographic ... you can enter into a contract with anyone about anything already without calling it marriage.
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Pssst: no you can't. Marriage carries with it obligations involving child and spousal support and creditors rights, that cannot be contracted out of.

I'm constantly impressed at how little conservatives know about the legal institution they purport to defend.
 
head of joaquin said:
Not mine. What do you care if a tiny fraction of the population is attracted to the same gender? Do you sense an apocalypse in this putative study?
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... the question was ... what if the data showed that adopted children of SS couples were more likely to become homosexual than otherwise.
There's really only one appropriate way for SSM proponents to answer the question.
You're dancing around it but is your answer "It doesn't matter" ?
 
bubbabgone said:
Talking about the effect on kids.
Citing data from "findings" or "surveys" with such a tiny sample.
What if there was data showing that the incidence of homosexuality among children raised by SS parents was higher than those raised by straight parents?
What would that tell you? Anything?
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One study has found that to be the case. It was by Schumm. Although he has a tendency to pick unrepresentative samples. He does a good job of demonstrating the limitations of research into homosexuality but then he commits the same fallacies he accuses others of committing.
 
CriticalThought said:
One study has found that to be the case. It was by Schumm. Although he has a tendency to pick unrepresentative samples. He does a good job of demonstrating the limitations of research into homosexuality but then he commits the same fallacies he accuses others of committing.
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He's not the only one.

But the bottom line is that regardless of how shoddy hetero child rearing can sometimes be, homosexual child rearing, at least by the numbers, can actually influence the child's sexual proclivities in addition to other implications. At a minimum it also casts suspicion on the notion that homosexuality is established at birth.

And if there can be 2 bottom lines, the other one is that there isn't enough data to conclude SSM definitely has no effect on children.
 
bubbabgone said:
He's not the only one.

But the bottom line is that regardless of how shoddy hetero child rearing can sometimes be, homosexual child rearing, at least by the numbers, can actually influence the child's sexual proclivities in addition to other implications. At a minimum it also casts suspicion on the notion that homosexuality is established at birth.

And if there can be 2 bottom lines, the other one is that there isn't enough data to conclude SSM definitely has no effect on children.
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There are plenty of straight people who have gay sex and gay people who have straight sex, usually inebriated, for the purpose of (drum roll) getting off !!!!!!!!!!.............Oh, the humanity............................
 
bubbabgone said:
... the question was ... what if the data showed that adopted children of SS couples were more likely to become homosexual than otherwise.
There's really only one appropriate way for SSM proponents to answer the question.
You're dancing around it but is your answer "It doesn't matter" ?
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I couldn't care less. It only matters if you assume that being homosexual is a bad thing. Since it's not, what difference does it make?
 
Gays are going to force all heterosexuals to experience sodomy so they emotionally understand what it's like to be gay
 
Bronson said:
Gays are going to force all heterosexuals to experience sodomy so they emotionally understand what it's like to be gay
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so are heterosexual men who engage in anal sex with female partners trying to make their partners understand what it means to be a gay man .... or are they trying to understand what it means to be gay themselves?
 
bubbabgone said:
He's not the only one.

But the bottom line is that regardless of how shoddy hetero child rearing can sometimes be, homosexual child rearing, at least by the numbers, can actually influence the child's sexual proclivities in addition to other implications. At a minimum it also casts suspicion on the notion that homosexuality is established at birth.

And if there can be 2 bottom lines, the other one is that there isn't enough data to conclude SSM definitely has no effect on children.
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even if that were the case, and it certainly doesn't seem to be ... if you had any clue you would prefer to see a young adult who was gay, who came from a loving family and felt positive about themselves than a young adult who was straight, came from an abusive home, and suffered depression, anxiety and serious self esteem issues.

If you don't agree with me, then you need to get out in the real world and see what happens to kids who are damaged by poor parenting.

A home that is loving, and where children are valued is what we should want for ALL children regardless of the sexuality of the parents.
 
bubbabgone said:
It was a question. What if there was data showing it. Would that affect your opinion in any way?
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bubba, after several decades working with young people and adolescents in a range of settings, I have had plenty of opportunity to see the damage poor parenting can do. I have also had plenty of opportunity to come across kids who have been raised by same sex parents - originally these were children raised (usually) by two mothers - but who were the product of a previous relationship.

I have seen no evidence that the parents being gay is problematic - except for in some cases kids being bullied/victimized by others. not always though, and sometimes, even in these cases the responses of the parents played a key role in assisting them to put things in perspective.

more social; acceptance (ie gay marriage) would go a long way to reducing the likelihood that these kids would be victimized/bullied - and that alone IMHO makes gay marriage a good thing.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but coming from my position there really is no other view that I can have.

I prefer to see young people who feel valued, loved, and generally good about themselves and their relationships with the significant people in their lives.
 
bubbabgone said:
Nope again.
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Yup. Your denials are irrelevant. Research is relevant.

As long as you're monkeying around with changing the intent of Amendments, might as well take a look at ALL of 'em again.
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Your analogy failed. Try again.
 
bubbabgone said:
Without being slippery, explain how & why that slippery slope argument is illogical and irrelevant and does not apply.
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Each type of "marriage" that you mention has different issues, challenges, and problems associated with it. None relate to SSM nor have the research backing the SSM does.

That was easy.
 
bubbabgone said:
Talking about the effect on kids.
Citing data from "findings" or "surveys" with such a tiny sample.
What if there was data showing that the incidence of homosexuality among children raised by SS parents was higher than those raised by straight parents?
What would that tell you? Anything?
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There are scores of research studies that demonstrate that children raised by single sex parents do as well as those raised by opposite sex parents. This is such a well established result that major organizations such as the APA, the AMA, and WHO have accepted these results as facts. Your denials of this are irrelevant in the face of peer reviewed studies and the acceptance by research based organizations. In fact, your denials seem to be completely based on personal bias, as their validity has been disproven based on substantiation.

And since studies show that the incidence of homosexuality among children raised by SS couples is equivalent to that of children raised by straight parents, your question is irrelevant.
 
Bronson said:
Gays are going to force all heterosexuals to experience sodomy so they emotionally understand what it's like to be gay
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Congratulations. This may be the most ignorant post in the history of this site. Please post any evidence that what you said has anything to do with reality.
 
Bronson said:
Gays are going to force all heterosexuals to experience sodomy so they emotionally understand what it's like to be gay
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what about straight couples who experiment-such as girls who take it "back door" or guys whose lady lovers use a dildo on them? wouldn't that allow you to achieve "knowledge" without you "joining the enemy"?
 
Cephus said:
I couldn't care less. It only matters if you assume that being homosexual is a bad thing. Since it's not, what difference does it make?
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Finally. Yes. That has to be the answer from the pro-SSM crowd but everyone else was dancing around it. Why do you think that is? Do you think they're actually conflicted? Or maybe they have just taken the position they think they're supposed to take?


Bonzai said:
There are plenty of straight people who have gay sex and gay people who have straight sex, usually inebriated, for the purpose of (drum roll) getting off !!!!!!!!!!.............Oh, the humanity............................
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Attaboy Bonzy. I'll have to take your word for that. I ain't never been THAT drunk...and I've been pretty drunk. Wait...do you think I could have been so drunk that maybe I don't....................naaaah.
 
marywollstonecraft said:
even if that were the case, and it certainly doesn't seem to be ... if you had any clue you would prefer to see a young adult who was gay, who came from a loving family and felt positive about themselves than a young adult who was straight, came from an abusive home, and suffered depression, anxiety and serious self esteem issues.

....
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marywollstonecraft said:
bubba, after several decades working with young people and adolescents in a range of settings, I have had plenty of opportunity to see the damage poor parenting can do. .... I have seen no evidence that the parents being gay is problematic - except for in some cases kids being bullied/victimized by others.
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You bet poor parenting is a problem. The point was that all families can have problems and that adopted children of SSM couples have an additional layer of problems to contend with ... including the very possible sexual identity confusion of those children.
 
bubbabgone said:
The argument you're having with yourself is fun to watch.
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Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

I wonder how a winner is determined when you argue with yourself? :bright:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
...
And since studies show that the incidence of homosexuality among children raised by SS couples is equivalent to that of children raised by straight parents, your question is irrelevant.
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Oh no no no. You are mistaken yet again.
Another poster mentioned a study yesterday and I know of a different one that shows something other than the anecdotal evidence you're calling "studies".
For consistency, your correct answer to the question should have been "What difference does it make. Homosexuality is no different than heterosexuality."
That wasn't your answer so to be intellectually consistent you have to explain why you see a distinction.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

I wonder how a winner is determined when you argue with yourself? :bright:
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In this case, the winner is the one who can stay up the latest to make the last comment ... it can make for uncomfortable fights over the last glass of OJ in the mornin' ... but on the plus side loneliness is seldom a problem.

How're you doing, Pol?
 
bubbabgone said:
Calm down.
When you resort to that "pound sand", "irrational fear", and name calling stuff it doesn't look good for you.

But ... ask yourself why you resist answering the "hypothetical" question in print.
It's like you know the answer.
Saying "Until you show me otherwise" is a clue.
Think about it.
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I don't answer "what-if" questions because they are pointless. You can go round and round on almost anything and no "what-if" scenario can be proven true because no evidence can support it. Again they accomplish nothing. Iif you can't make you point without "what-if" you've lost.
 
polgara said:
Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:

I wonder how a winner is determined when you argue with yourself? :bright:
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Good morning, Polgara.:2wave:
Perhaps Billy Idol was onto something.

Oh dancing with myself
Oh dancing with myself
Well there's nothing to lose
And there's nothing to prove
I'll be dancing with myself
 
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