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Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

Ontologuy said:
"Now"???

Pre-conceived ideologues have been shoving it to me for the past few days now! :lol:

But I've presented accurately and with proof, so I just dismiss their Donald Duck fits and realize a word to the wise is sufficient. :cool:
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All you have presented is inaccurate information that has been refuted. I am just happy that I can point this out to the rest of DP.
 
Ontologuy said:
False.

I've provided accurate presentation in other threads the past couple of days that validates the reality that transsexuality and homosexuality are birth defects caused by hormone-blast dysfunctions during gestation.

That pre-conceived ideologues have "trouble" accepting the truth of it is the only real absurdity .. though it's understandable, all compulsive mindset things considered regarding protection and retaining power.
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You have provided false information that has been refuted conclusively and only indicates that you have an agenda with no substantiation.
 
Bronson said:
Are you disputing it?

When has same sex parenting ever been a societal norm?

Futurity.org – Survey: How kids of same-sex parents fare as adults
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I already debunked this when Ontologuy presented it. The study primarily discusses children raised in households with lesbian mothers... SINGLE PARENT households, which studies certainly conclude are not as conducive to positive outcomes as dual parent households. Secondly, the researcher presents his own disclaimer, admitting that his findings to not account for divorce, an issue that we know causes struggles for many kids.

So, yes, this study is debunked based on methodology and confounds. I appreciate you and Ontologuy letting us look at it so we know to not give it any credence.
 
Jerry said:
And is that supposed to prove something, or....?
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it was a response to the belief by some that gay parents will raise there kids to be gay, and lends credence to the mounting evidence that you're born, you do not choose to be, gay ...
hope this is satisfactory Jerry ... have a good night ... also, thought you'd enjoy this ...

12 Reasons Same-Sex Marriage will Ruin Society (PG)


1. Homosexuality is not natural, much like eyeglasses, polyester, and birth control are not natural.

2. Heterosexual marriages are valid because they produce children. Infertile couples and old people cannot get legally married because the world needs more children.

3. Obviously gay parents will raise gay children because straight parents only raise straight children.

4. Straight marriage will be less meaningful, since Britney Spears's 55-hour just-for-fun marriage was meaningful.

5. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and it hasn't changed at all: women are property, Blacks can't marry Whites, and divorce is illegal.

6. Gay marriage should be decided by the people, not the courts, because the majority-elected legislatures, not courts, have historically protected the rights of minorities.

7. Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are always imposed on the entire country. That's why we only have one religion in America.

8. Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people makes you tall.

9. Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage license.

10. Children can never succeed without both male and female role models at home. That's why single parents are forbidden to raise children.

11. Gay marriage will change the foundation of society. Heterosexual marriage has been around for a long time, and we could never adapt to new social norms because we haven't adapted to cars or longer lifespans.

12. Civil unions, providing most of the same benefits as marriage with a different name are better, because a "separate but equal" institution is always constitutional. Separate schools for African-Americans worked just as well as separate marriages will for gays & lesbians.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I already debunked this when Ontologuy presented it. The study primarily discusses children raised in households with lesbian mothers... SINGLE PARENT households, which studies certainly conclude are not as conducive to positive outcomes as dual parent households. Secondly, the researcher presents his own disclaimer, admitting that his findings to not account for divorce, an issue that we know causes struggles for many kids.

So, yes, this study is debunked based on methodology and confounds. I appreciate you and Ontologuy letting us look at it so we know to not give it any credence.
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I admire your patience ...
 
Sooo you have nothing which hasn't already been refuted a million time before. Got it.
 
I have found that when a priest of the "church" must dishonor himself and go out of his way to blatantly stalk, harass, and censor a .. well, "heretic" .. it usually means the "heretic" has something truthful to say that the "church" finds threatening to their protection and power, that might cause their cathedral of cards to collapse should it ever become common knowledge.

:cool:
 
Ontologuy said:
I have found that when a priest of the "church" must dishonor himself and go out of his way to blatantly stalk, harass, and censor a .. well, "heretic" .. it usually means the "heretic" has something truthful to say that the "church" finds threatening to their protection and power, that might cause their cathedral of cards to collapse should it ever become common knowledge.

:cool:
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I have found that when someone lies and presents false information... even after it has been thoroughly refuted and shown to be invalid, it usually means that they have an agenda that they are unable to see beyond. You should take this advice and either educate yourself on this topic, or examine your motivations for presenting misinformation.
 
Bronson said:
There have been several studies which show children are best raised by their biological parents in a low conflict household
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Present them.

Gay marriage does not follow Natural Law
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Prove it.

Why do gays get to change the definition of marriage that applies only to them as a sexual interest group?
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If other groups want to expand marriage to them, let them try.
 
I think all the studies have found no meaningful differences but a lot of them have been very small studies. There is some indication that gays and straights have different parenting styles with the gays making more effort to be aware of parenting techniques and straights more likely to just wing it as parents. As a straight parent, I can definitely say we definitely just wing it.
 
Henrin said:
What in the hell are you talking about? Your link was a failure that didn't touch my question and this has nothing to do with if I'm a libertarian. I'm sorry you can't read your own links, but no where in your link does it even address my point. Try harder next time.
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careful Henrin ... I got a warning from CaptainCourtesy, one of the speech police, for a response to you earlier ... s/he is quick to pull the trigger ... anyway, I've decided not to deal with CC, so after I say good-bye to a few folks, I'm not going to be posting on DP ... I know you'll miss me, so I wanted you to know :) ... I just have a low tolerance for speech suppression ... take care ...
 
Fisher said:
I think all the studies have found no meaningful differences but a lot of them have been very small studies. There is some indication that gays and straights have different parenting styles with the gays making more effort to be aware of parenting techniques and straights more likely to just wing it as parents. As a straight parent, I can definitely say we definitely just wing it.
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I bet the selection of individual couples has a big impact on the more positive results for gay couples. Being that I imagine any gay couple trying to adopt is likely facing a number of difficult social hurdles, needs to prove financial stability, and the adoption is naturally pre-planned

Most hetero parents just fall into the job
 
So... on the whole gay adoption thing.

I am only aware of a few small scale tests done by psychologists and sociologists in America, most of the tests done with families living on the east coast. Those are the only tests done in the US, in regards to gay adoption, that I am aware of. And so far, those tests have concluded that children that are are raised by homosexuals have no increased risk to develop harmfully. That means... that if the gays are good parents, they may just do a good job. If they are bad parents, they'll do a crappy job.

However, I must stress that these tests are small scale. A few hundred homosexual couples, all of them, living in pretty much the same places.

So are these tests relevant? Yes. Are they absolute? Not by a long shot.

I think that the correct thing to do is to have states fund programs that look into this matter, all over the 50 states really, with a wide array of parameters to look into. And based on the results of those tests that should span between 10-30years, decide on whether indeed, gay adoption should be legal or not. If there is no extra risk associated to children being raised by homosexual couples, then lets legalize it. There are plenty of children out there who are abandoned or mistreated by bad straight parents and they could use a home. But if it does present an increased risk, then lets not legalize gay adoption.

It is time to stop working on the basis of sentiments people. Lets apply the scientific method to a problem and act according to the results.

EDIT: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/20051012/study-same-sex-parents-raise-well-adjusted-kids

This is a public article from 2005, so before all this BS of a hype. DON'T TRUST WHAT THE MEDIA SOURCES TELL YOU THAT IS FROM 2010 ONWARD, THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO POLITICAL PRESSURE.

15 studies on more than 500 children, As I said, small scale studies... 500 kids, not much to make a final, absolute ruling on.
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Studies from 1981 to 1994, including 260 children reared by either heterosexual mothers or same-sex mothers after divorce, found no differences in intelligence, type or prevalence of psychiatric disorders, self-esteem, well-being, peer relationships, couple relationships, or parental stress.
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While further study should be done, this is important for pediatricians to know so they can learn more about variations in families and give appropriate advice in optimizing the child's development, Perrin says.

Carol Berkowitz, MD, former president of AAP, says this analysis is important in that it combines evidence-based studies.

"This subject evokes a lot of emotions," she says. "Some of the studies on this subject in the past have been weighted and biased, based on nothing more than the researcher's views."

Evidence-based studies are important in helping pediatricians in their practices and creating policy for the future, she says.
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EDIT 2: Then, there is also another article... that states the opposite.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive//ldn/2005/may/05053106

The Spanish Association of Pediatrics firmly backs up the findings of the report, stating that a “family nucleus with two fathers or two mothers is clearly dangerous for the child”.
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This all means that we need to do more studying on the issue, independent of political partisanship or personal emotions, before we can come to a scientifically sound conclusion.

I am trying to find a study from Norway that stated that gay parents aren't harmful to children... and I remember one from England from 1999 saying that children who are raised by gay parents are more likely to develop poor social skills and lack ambition.
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
You realize that this is irrelevant. It would be relevant if during those 6,000 years we had evidence that SSM couple did NOT do well raising kids... and only now is new evidence presenting the opposite. I can site evidence that shows that traditional families screw up kids. What does that prove? That some traditional families screw up kids. Show it be outlawed? No. There is plenty of research on single sex couples raising kids. Overwhelmingly, it's positive. The 6,000 year crap means zero.
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It's irrelevant to you. You exist. How you came to exist is the question you need to answer. 6,000 years is a guess at recorded history. Outside of that it means nothing.
 
humbolt said:
It's irrelevant to you. You exist. How you came to exist is the question you need to answer. 6,000 years is a guess at recorded history. Outside of that it means nothing.
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No, it's irrelevant. You are making the argument to tradition logical fallacy.
 
The argument of what is best for the children is lost on the left. Any group that has no problem killing babies certainly can not be expected to consider their best interests ahead of selfish interests. A child to a gay couple falls somewhere between a social experiment and one of those little dogs people carry around in a bag. It's just another way to say "Look at us! We're special!" The "parents" wouldn't have a clue as to how screwed up the child ends up viewed from their own perspective. In fact the the more extreme the deviation from the norm the larger the victory as any departure from the norm is considered progress regardless of direction.
 
humbolt said:
Tradition in this case has very real physical consequences. You can ignore them. That doesn't mean they aren't there.
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No, not in this case. In his case it is a logical fallacy.
 
tech30528 said:
The argument of what is best for the children is lost on the left. Any group that has no problem killing babies certainly can not be expected to consider their best interests ahead of selfish interests.
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An undeniable fact.
 
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