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Thread: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think that the gay marriage laws as is are unconstitutional. I'm also not one that believes there's substantially higher likelihood of a child having issues growing up with homosexual parents than with regular ones.

    That said, the outrage over Scalia's statement is ridiculous. The entire point of a judge in this situation is to ask questions to gather the most information and look at ALL SIDES and potential issues of a case. Like it or not, there is seemingly a divide in terms of what some people think in terms of the potential impact of homosexual couples raising children. Simply acknowledging that and asking about it is not out of line, bigoted, or irresponsible for a judge to do. On the contrary, that's part of what a judge SHOULD be doing as long as they're not definitively taking a stance during questioning one way or another...which there is no indication Scalia is doing such. Basically, what I see is a lot of people feeling like the ruling should absolutely go one particular way and attacking and lambasting anyone who dares to actually address this in a way that a court case should be addressed.
    Again, since adoption is in each case a judicial determination that centers on what is in the best interest of the particular child, what was Scalia's question intended to illuminate? The determination is going to be made in each case whether gays are allowed to adopt or not.

    I can't for the life of me see the point except to inflame, which is something he usually does. Scalia is a bully and he relishes attacking and insulting minorities. That's his record.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think that the gay marriage laws as is are unconstitutional. I'm also not one that believes there's substantially higher likelihood of a child having issues growing up with homosexual parents than with regular ones.

    That said, the outrage over Scalia's statement is ridiculous. The entire point of a judge in this situation is to ask questions to gather the most information and look at ALL SIDES and potential issues of a case. Like it or not, there is seemingly a divide in terms of what some people think in terms of the potential impact of homosexual couples raising children. Simply acknowledging that and asking about it is not out of line, bigoted, or irresponsible for a judge to do. On the contrary, that's part of what a judge SHOULD be doing as long as they're not definitively taking a stance during questioning one way or another...which there is no indication Scalia is doing such. Basically, what I see is a lot of people feeling like the ruling should absolutely go one particular way and attacking and lambasting anyone who dares to actually address this in a way that a court case should be addressed.
    I agree it SHOULDN'T be a big deal and I agree it doesn't affect his eventual decision, but I think asking WHY he asked is a fair point. As others have mentioned, adoption is rarely a rubber stamp process, but one in which different circumstances are evaluated individually. And as I noted in my last post, we have plenty of evidence of children being "screwed up" from being raised by heterosexual parents. So knowing that adoption is an individual circumstance and that heterosexual parents can screw up a child as well, why is Scalia asking a lawyer a question which would be better asked of sociologists?

    I'm not saying Scalia had ulterior motives, it just does seem a strange question to ask, without having context behind why he asked.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    I think you're probably right. It isn't a hot button issue with me either, but I respect and support those who are concerned about their right to marry.

    Frankly I'd dump the whole "marriage" verbiage from civil law and only allow for civil unions as the only legally binding form of domestic partnerships, which would apply to consenting adults, gay or straight. I'd let religions use the word "marriage" for their ceremonies but they would have no legal force and they could have whatever restrictions or requirements the particular church wanted. They can have the word as far as I'm concerned. Civil law should rid itself of it.
    I can go with that. Actually my marriage isn't recognized by some of the very religious either. Since I married a Thai gal in a Buddhist ceremony at Wat Tattong in Bangkok. But I had the foresight if you will, to get the army's permission and then have the marriage certificate translated and notarized by JUSMAGTHAI SJA. So the marriage is legal and recognized by all except some churches since I didn't get married in a church. But that doesn't bother me a bit.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    The issues and ramifications inherent in same sex marriage are not settled law or science. That is why this case or any other comes before the Supreme Court.

    This particular legal conflict arose when the people of the State of California, the most liberal state in the union, rejected same sex marriage in a popular vote. Because they were rejected by the people, the proponents of same sex marriage have taken the position that the people didn't have a constitutional right to vote on that issue.

    Obviously the California voters are not convinced that same sex parents would be of benefit to children, so if a Supreme Court Justice did not ask that exact question, he would not be pursuing all questions that are raised simply by the fact of this case coming before the Supreme Court.

    It is the job of the proponent's attorney to have facts and figures at hand to satisfactorily answer Scalia's question. Hautily taking the position that no questions regarding parental fitness should be asked ignores why the case is here in the first place. If you're going to go before the court, you have to prove all aspects of your case, not simply assert your superiority.
    Last edited by Ray410; 03-26-13 at 11:56 PM.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    I agree it SHOULDN'T be a big deal and I agree it doesn't affect his eventual decision, but I think asking WHY he asked is a fair point. As others have mentioned, adoption is rarely a rubber stamp process, but one in which different circumstances are evaluated individually. And as I noted in my last post, we have plenty of evidence of children being "screwed up" from being raised by heterosexual parents. So knowing that adoption is an individual circumstance and that heterosexual parents can screw up a child as well, why is Scalia asking a lawyer a question which would be better asked of sociologists?

    I'm not saying Scalia had ulterior motives, it just does seem a strange question to ask, without having context behind why he asked.
    I don't have issue with people wondering why he would ask such a thing. My issue is immediately suggesting it makes him an "intolerant ****", declaring it as clear "hatemongering", or indication of him being a "royal ass" who should recuse himself. The response you described wouldn't be "outrage" but simple reasonable curiosity regarding what the purpose of the inquiry was. My comment specifically was aimed at those seemingly outraged over the mere fact he'd state it and leaping to significant assumptions from moment one.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Scalia doesn't have to wonder. The issue has been researched and documented for the last 40 years.

    LGBT parenting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Nearly every study on the subject shows that children in same sex households fare just as well as their counterparts.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    No more harmful than the allowance we have for straight parents to harm their children. Parents are parents and they will screw most kids up somehow. This wanting a guarantee that no kid will be screwed up by allowing gay marriage should be turned on straight marriage also if it is truly a concern. It won't be because even scalia knows it is damned near impossible to stop, and no parents are perfect. but if they want to do something about parents screwing their kids up i suggest they focus on the married people who can actually reproduce by accident.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I don't have issue with people wondering why he would ask such a thing. My issue is immediately suggesting it makes him an "intolerant ****", declaring it as clear "hatemongering", or indication of him being a "royal ass" who should recuse himself. The response you described wouldn't be "outrage" but simple reasonable curiosity regarding what the purpose of the inquiry was. My comment specifically was aimed at those seemingly outraged over the mere fact he'd state it and leaping to significant assumptions from moment one.
    I would say that reasoning is sound considering no one wants to stop straight parents from having kids because they might not be capable of raising them without problems. It is the same old story. they make up a reason to be offended that does not make any sense. If non screwed up kids was actually a concern we would focus on straight people first because they screw up the most kids. That is why the idea is prejudiced. No one really cares much about stopping completely incompetant straight people from breeding. As a matter of fact many people wish to encourage straight people who screw up big time to be forced to raise children out of mistakes. What better way to show you endorse the screwing up of american kids than to try and force screw ups who cannot figure out BC, condoms, or simply not humping to raise their little mistakes.

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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I'm not sure if his question indicates he is intolerant. I CERTAINLY indicates that he is ignorant on the issue.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Scalia Wonders If Same-Sex Parents ‘Harmful’ To Children

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Actually, Scalia is pretty much right on.

    The fact is adoption agencies most certainly don't historically allow adoption by SS couples for the very reason he presented, and it's a huge reason: http://www.debatepolitics.com/sex-an...post1061593200
    This is reality, whether ideologues accept it or not.
    This has all been proven invalid countless times. Please stop posting misinformation that is not credible.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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