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Thread: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you think he is weak willed too? Do you have any evidence to base that on? If your mom asks you to provide her with narcotic pain meds without a prescription, will you give them to her? I bet not, and that is alot closer than a first cousin.
    I absolutely would not do so. But if I was on the board of pharmacy or DEA setting the policy on narcs and my mom said "you need to try and change things so I can freely feed my addiction" and I considered that it would be a conflict. I don't think that Roberts would definitely act in bias, but the wrong does lie with his cousin and it's completely inappropriate for her to request that he make a ruling in her favor so she can get married to her girlfriend just as it would be completely inappropriate for my mother to ask me to rule on legal policy so she can feed an addiction more freely.
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Guinn v. United States, 238 U.S. 347 (1915), was an important United States Supreme Court decision that dealt with provisions of state constitutions that set qualifications for voters. It found grandfather clause exemptions to literacy tests to be unconstitutional. The Oklahoma Constitution, while appearing to treat all voters equally, allowed an exemption to the literacy requirement for those voters whose grandfathers had either been eligible to vote prior to January 1, 1866 or were then a resident of "some foreign nation", or were soldiers. It was an exemption that favored white voters while it disfranchised black voters, most of whose grandfathers had been slaves and therefore unable to vote before 1866.
    "In 1915, in the case of Guinn v. United States, the Supreme Court declared the grandfather clauses in the Maryland and Oklahoma constitutions to be repugnant to the Fifteenth Amendment and therefore null and void."This also affected similar provisions in the constitutions of Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, and Virginia. While the grandfather clause was ruled unconstitutional, state legislatures worked to develop other means of restricting voter registration. It took years for cases challenging those laws to reach the Supreme Court.
    Guinn v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Are not those that think their belief that SSM be recognize by every state regardless of what the law or people say also bigots by strict definition? After all, it's intolerance of the valid position that marriage is the union between one man and one woman.

    LGBT people do have equal rights, they can marry freely. However, marriage by definition is one man one woman in most places and that is the grounds for marrying freely. That does not need to change because LGBT people want to say that the traditional and largely legally accepted view does not conform to their relationships.
    Nope, and the position that marriage is just a union between a man and a woman is not a valid position. It is bigotry, period.

    And if LGBT people can not marry the people they love, then we do not have equal rights, you can say otherwise all day, doesn't make it true.
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I absolutely would not do so. But if I was on the board of pharmacy or DEA setting the policy on narcs and my mom said "you need to try and change things so I can freely feed my addiction" and I considered that it would be a conflict. I don't think that Roberts would definitely act in bias, but the wrong does lie with his cousin and it's completely inappropriate for her to request that he make a ruling in her favor so she can get married to her girlfriend just as it would be completely inappropriate for my mother to ask me to rule on legal policy so she can feed an addiction more freely.
    The point is, your mom asking for special considerations, or taking your family into account when ruling on the constitutionality of a law, would both be violations of ethics. I have seen no indication that any of the judges would do that, and do not assume they would simply because they have relatives, just as I assume you would not simply because you have relatives.
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Nope, and the position that marriage is just a union between a man and a woman is not a valid position. It is bigotry, period.

    And if LGBT people can not marry the people they love, then we do not have equal rights, you can say otherwise all day, doesn't make it true.
    It is a valid position, it's the most prominent legally recognized position by the majority of states, period.

    Your right to marry is what the state allows. Your right to push to change the definition of marriage through legislation and free speech is also there, but you do not have the right to invalidate the laws and beliefs of others over your views. It is not your right to tell another state and the voters of that state that they must recognize LGBT relationships as marriage and change their legally adopted definition just as much as it is not anyone elses right to tell a state that they must change their position that allows for SSM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The point is, your mom asking for special considerations, or taking your family into account when ruling on the constitutionality of a law, would both be violations of ethics. I have seen no indication that any of the judges would do that, and do not assume they would simply because they have relatives, just as I assume you would not simply because you have relatives.
    And he may not take his cousin into consideration. But if that becomes the case and evidence surfaces that this happened he needs to recuse himself.
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So your problem is he once did not interpret the constitution as you wanted him to. Bummer. He has also ruled in ways I do not like, but like I feel with the rest of the justices, I have some faith they will actually attempt to rule based on the law.
    I have no faith in the judicial branch at all. I have studied them for far too long to feel any sort of faith in them. I hate to say it but I feel Obama was in part right about him all those years ago when he said he would vote for corporate interests. Sure, I support his prior decision in Citizens United, but when you combine that with other similar votes a pattern starts to form that I can't just ignore. The argument that forced commerce falls under the taxing and spending clause is not an argument anyone with any sort of understanding of the Constitution would ever accept and his argument on just why it was a tax was not only irreverent, but frankly wrong. I have no idea how he will vote in this kind of case, but he seems easily moved by things outside of the constitution and that worries me.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It is a valid position, it's the most prominent legally recognized position by the majority of states, period.

    Your right to marry is what the state allows. Your right to change the definition of marriage is also there, but you do not have the right to invalidate the laws and beliefs of others over your views. It is not your right to tell another state and the voters of that state that they must recognize inter-racial relationships as marriage and change their legally adopted definition just as much as it is not anyone elses right to tell a state that they must change their position that allows for inter-racial marriage.
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And he may not take his cousin into consideration. But if that becomes the case and evidence surfaces that this happened he needs to recuse himself.
    But you could make similar arguments for each and every Justice in each and every case. What you are doing is seeing gay relative and all of a sudden thinking it is more likely because of it, without any evidence to actually suggest that. In fact, I could make more compelling cases that all those who are potential votes in favor of DOMA and Prop 8 should recuse themselves. I would still consider them weak arguments, but more compelling that a gay first cousin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I certainly hope he doesn't put family issues and bias over legal matters.
    If I recall correctly Romer was a 6-3 decision and the case was decided more along the lines of the Colorado Amendment prohibited gays from seeking protection from the Courts/legislature and the ruling was basically everybody has a right to have their grievances heard both politically and legally. It has been awhile since I read the case but my recollection is that is is more of a procedural due process ruling.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It is a valid position, it's the most prominent legally recognized position by the majority of states, period.

    Your right to marry is what the state allows. Your right to push to change the definition of marriage through legislation and free speech is also there, but you do not have the right to invalidate the laws and beliefs of others over your views. It is not your right to tell another state and the voters of that state that they must recognize LGBT relationships as marriage and change their legally adopted definition just as much as it is not anyone elses right to tell a state that they must change their position that allows for SSM.



    And he may not take his cousin into consideration. But if that becomes the case and evidence surfaces that this happened he needs to recuse himself.
    If the vote is another 5-4 decision and Roberts is one of the 5 that vote to overturn the ban, whether or not he took his cousins or kin into consideration, the taste will still be there that he did. The appearance that he was influenced by his cousin will hang over this decision for many a year to come.

    This is why, which ever way they decide that the decision is nearly unanimous. 7-2 or 8-1 or even 9-0. Anything closer will cause the argument over gay marriages to continue much like the 5-4 decisions on abortion has continued on to this very day. There is no end in sight for that debate.
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