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Thread: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Correct, full faith and credit doesn't cover every state action. But marriage has a precedent of being a "basic civil right."
    However, if the LGBT activists could lose the demand to redefine the word, this matter would have been resolved years ago. The majority of people couldn't care less about the contractural/Fed benefits aspect that should be the point of the whole push.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    And marriage is the union of one man and one woman in the vast majority of states...
    And this pertains to the Supreme Court hearing a national case for same-sex marriage, how?
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Really, you telling me that marriage equality throughout the US is discrimination against people? That's rich
    It's true. You, and no one else, should have the right to tell others that their votes and beliefs or their state constitutions can't uphold the traditional definition of marriage. People in Louisiana can't tell Massachusetts that their state can't alter the definition of marriage to include same sex couples and the people of Massachusetts can't tell the people in Louisiana that they must recognize same sex marriages. What's rich is the whole "oppression" and "discrimination" bull**** that gets tossed around along with the self righteous accusations of hatred and bigotry. States issue certificates, people have the right to vote and it's certainly within the law (or at least should be pending SCOTUS ruling) for a state to uphold the traditional definition of marriage, period.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's not just a religious definition, but the secular traditional definition as well as has been used and legalized by the majority of states and for hundreds of years. SSM is a policy issue whether or not a state wants to redefine marriage and extend the legal definition to same sex couples. No state constitution and it's definition of marriage has anything legally to do with religion, and it's within people's rights to define marriage and vote based on their religious convictions just as it is for those to do so based on secular/atheistic convictions.

    States can discriminate as is in line with their policies. Licensure in many professional areas is a prime example. When I graduate and take my board exams I will apply to be licensed in my state. It would be illegal for me to practice pharmacy in another state and they do not need to recognize my license. State boards of pharmacy and medicine also regulate scopes of practice and other legal issues. I may be able to prescribe medications without residency training under a collaborate practice agreement like NPs and PAs have, but another state that has additional requirements makes it illegal for me to do so in the other state. Pharmaceutical distributors must also be licensed by the FDA and state board of pharmacy. There was a lawsuit not to long ago where a physician was importing drugs from another state for office use, the distributor was not licensed in his state of practice and that was illegal. I could even work for the VA and prescribe medications under federal guidelines, but if I step outside of the VA and go to a state hospital across the street I could not do so since state law would prohibit it.

    States do not need to recognize the policy of others. Not all licenses and recognitions are covered under the Full Faith and Credit clause and it's not unlawful discrimination for states to have differing policies. Equally so, it is discrimination against the voters of a state to say that their right to vote and their beliefs that have been legally placed into law regarding SSM cannot be honored due to one state setting policy for everyone else. If we want uniformity then the federal government needs to be the one issuing marriage certificates.
    Licenses are not civil rights. They are earned through accreditation without discrimination as to who can obtain the qualification for the license. Standards which vary from state to state also do not discriminate against a person, but are qualifications as to knowledge/education to be met by the applicant.

    It's apples and oranges. Licenses are not a matter of equal protection under the law.

    I agree, marriage is not strictly a religious institution and demonstrated how it is intertwined in both religious tradition and as function of the state. You are arguing the religious position. It is against your religion, but your religion should have nothing to do with a homosexual couple's civil right to be married. It is a function of government, as I discussed, so the government cannot establish a religious barrier to that function. Yes, you can vote based on your beliefs, anyone can, but in this case, it may not prove to be allowed under the constitution.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I don't understand why so many people default to that straw man argument when it comes to SSM. Marriage is the union between a man and woman. Race is constitutionally protected. It's unconstitutional to deny a man and woman the ability to marry due to race. However, I don't think it's within the Constitution to suddenly force the traditional and legal definition of marriage that has been around for hundreds of years to change because public opinion has changed and it's somehow "gender discrimination" to uphold the correct and traditional definition of marriage that has been honored since the nation's creation.
    Just our luck we got the Puritans. But same-sex marriage has been recognized the world over.

    History of same-sex unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In the 20th and 21st centuries various types of same-sex unions have come to be legalized. Same-sex marriage is currently legal in eight European countries: Belgium, Denmark, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and Sweden; Luxembourg, Finland, France and the United Kingdom are currently in the process of legalization. Politicians in the United Kingdom have expressed their intention to promote legislation to allow same-sex marriage. Other types of recognition for same-sex unions (civil unions or registered partnerships) are as of 2012 legal in the following European countries: Andorra, Austria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Slovenia, Switzerland and the United Kingdom.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Just our luck we got the Puritans. But same-sex marriage has been recognized the world over.

    History of same-sex unions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    That's wonderful, it's up to those government to do so. Other nations allow for polygamy and others define it as one man one woman.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    It's true. You, and no one else, should have the right to tell others that their votes and beliefs or their state constitutions can't uphold the traditional definition of marriage. People in Louisiana can't tell Massachusetts that their state can't alter the definition of marriage to include same sex couples and the people of Massachusetts can't tell the people in Louisiana that they must recognize same sex marriages. What's rich is the whole "oppression" and "discrimination" bull**** that gets tossed around along with the self righteous accusations of hatred and bigotry. States issue certificates, people have the right to vote and it's certainly within the law (or at least should be pending SCOTUS ruling) for a state to uphold the traditional definition of marriage, period.


    Except if Louisiana is found to be violating the civil rights of citizens of this secular nation. THEN Louisiana is in violation of federal laws protecting its citizens.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    That's wonderful, it's up to those government to do so. Other nations allow for polygamy and others define it as one man one woman.


    It's an evolution of humankind. We need to stop thinking like PUritans and move forward with human rights.
    Alex Carey:

    ... the 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy.

    Australian social scientist, quoted by Noam Chomsky in World Orders Old and New

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I certainly hope he doesn't put family issues and bias over legal matters.
    He is catholic. Do you worry he puts his religion over US law? If not, then why do you worry about a not all that close relative being gay might influence his decision?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Chief Justice John Robertsí lesbian cousin to attend Proposition 8 arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    It's an evolution of humankind. We need to stop thinking like PUritans and move forward with human rights.
    Wonderful, so when are we going to outlaw abortion?

    Marriage is a civil right, but a marriage is the union between a man and a woman. A state can change that definition or uphold that definition, but marriage by default in this nation is not the union between any consenting adults. Your civil right to marry is within the guidelines of the definition, not what you want the definition to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    He is catholic. Do you worry he puts his religion over US law? If not, then why do you worry about a not all that close relative being gay might influence his decision?
    When his relative is asking that he strike down Prop 8 so she can get married that is where I worry. If his Catholic family got involved and said "you better not strike down Prop 8" I would also be worried. The requests or emotional appeals of family should have 0 bearing and it's disrespectful and in poor taste in my opinion for family members to request that a judge rule on their behalf.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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