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Thread: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The reason we have a TSA is to make American citizens feel safe on airplanes. That's of paramount importance to our economy. When it was created, it was very important to ensure just that. I don't mind that they do their jobs, but but BUT!! they need to be better trained. They should be trained to HELP, trained to apologize for the inconvenience, and not forget they are servants of the people.
    Maggie you and I disagree profoundly. I personally detest the very idea of the TSA. The people who caused them to be created won. Quite frankly the TSA is a waste of time and money. Do you really think that planes are going to be taken over without a fight now? 19 men with box cutters performed a brilliant audacous surprise attack. It is not repeatable, with or without the TSA. Hijacking a plane succesfully is much lower now than before no matter how well armed the hijackers are.

    If you want to feel safe from those who would do us harm, then the US policy should be ruthless and merciless towards terrorists and those who support them. No warning, no mercy. You want to be safe. Hang every one in GITMO. Publicly. Leave no doubt in the minds of your enemies you are a complete and utter bastard NOT to be trifled with.
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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Maggie you and I disagree profoundly. I personally detest the very idea of the TSA. The people who caused them to be created won. Quite frankly the TSA is a waste of time and money. Do you really think that planes are going to be taken over without a fight now? 19 men with box cutters performed a brilliant audacous surprise attack. It is not repeatable, with or without the TSA. Hijacking a plane succesfully is much lower now than before no matter how well armed the hijackers are.

    If you want to feel safe from those who would do us harm, then the US policy should be ruthless and merciless towards terrorists and those who support them. No warning, no mercy. You want to be safe. Hang every one in GITMO. Publicly. Leave no doubt in the minds of your enemies you are a complete and utter bastard NOT to be trifled with.
    I completely respect your opinion on all counts. On the one hand, I wish we could be that ruthless country that took the stance on terrorists that you describe. On the other? I don't want to live in that country. So we do the best we can.

    I also agree that it's unlikely small arms are going to take over an airplane -- or that any arms will, really. And I think we're moving closer to that realization as evidenced by the recent change in allowing small knives aboard. Maybe soon they'll go back to looking for explosives and guns -- things that can take a plane down.

    In the meantime, however, these TSA agents need to be better trained. People need to be completely respected while they're undergoing the process. Agents should be helpful. They should be apologetic. They should be saying things like, "I am so sorry! But it's my job." They should be quietly and respectfully leading people into private areas where they can be respectfully checked out. 99.9999% of these people go through the procedure and no action at all is taken.

    They are citizens of the United States of America. These people work for them. Their training and supervision programs must be atrocious for them to have treated this soldier the way they did.
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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Why is this a story? Are there people out there who think government workers are apt to apply common sense?

    I can imagine why the TSA did this. They're probably more likely to get fired for not doing this as opposed to doing it.

    Welcome to the government. Bush basically just treated DHS as an extension of the Patriot Act to get into everyone's business.

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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Many of the people complaining here are the same people who dismiss the way our justice system treats the wrongly accused/convicted. It's a small price to pay for the certainty of our overall safety, blah blah blah. We either want to go overboard to grab some safety, or we don't.

    Disclaimer: No, I don't approve of this, just pointing out some people's double-standards.
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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    In the meantime, however, these TSA agents need to be better trained. People need to be completely respected while they're undergoing the process. Agents should be helpful. They should be apologetic. They should be saying things like, "I am so sorry! But it's my job." They should be quietly and respectfully leading people into private areas where they can be respectfully checked out. 99.9999% of these people go through the procedure and no action at all is taken.
    As an interesting note, starting last year TSA began a massive reorganization and transformation period. It hit it's 10 year anniversary and proceeded to begin a process of evaluating all it's various offices. The thing to remember with TSA is, unlike MANY of the agencies in the US, it's a relative baby. An organization made up of disparate parts of many other organizations, spun up in weeks/months and only just recently hitting a decade in terms of it's age. There's still a lot of bugs to be worked out and tweaks to be made in terms of making it run as efficient as possible (relative to any government agency running "efficiently).

    One of the things involved in that reorganization was the creation of the Office of Training and Workforce Engagement. An offiec largely aimed at streamlining and standardizing training that occured within TSA. A lot of the training previously had guidance from a headquarters stand point but had a lot of of reliance on the individual airports training staff in terms of how things worked. The new office has been looking at ways to improve training, create a more standardized and unified form of training, find better ways to monitor and test for quality training results, and other such things.

    Part of the process was looking at the best practices put into play by one TSA office which had it's own in house training division, and whose workforce was exceptionally well training. The new Assistant Administrator of OTWE is actually the former Deputy Assistant Administrator of the office in question. Many of the leadership in the new Office of Training also came from that office. So there's definitely a desire, focus, and action within TSA to improve Training across the entire organization.

    The other thing that's being done...again, actually borrowing from a program that was done successfully in a particular office of TSA....is attempting to roll out a program over the entire organization aimed at improving and reshaping the culture within the agency in terms of accountability, focus on the mission, and workforce empowerment. It takes some time for corporate cultures to be changed and for those changes to infiltrate all levels, but over the few years since the program was done in the individual office there has been noticed improvements, and hopefully a similar trajectory is seen when implimented agency wide.

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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    As an interesting note, starting last year TSA began a massive reorganization and transformation period. It hit it's 10 year anniversary and proceeded to begin a process of evaluating all it's various offices. The thing to remember with TSA is, unlike MANY of the agencies in the US, it's a relative baby. An organization made up of disparate parts of many other organizations, spun up in weeks/months and only just recently hitting a decade in terms of it's age. There's still a lot of bugs to be worked out and tweaks to be made in terms of making it run as efficient as possible (relative to any government agency running "efficiently).

    One of the things involved in that reorganization was the creation of the Office of Training and Workforce Engagement. An offiec largely aimed at streamlining and standardizing training that occured within TSA. A lot of the training previously had guidance from a headquarters stand point but had a lot of of reliance on the individual airports training staff in terms of how things worked. The new office has been looking at ways to improve training, create a more standardized and unified form of training, find better ways to monitor and test for quality training results, and other such things.

    Part of the process was looking at the best practices put into play by one TSA office which had it's own in house training division, and whose workforce was exceptionally well training. The new Assistant Administrator of OTWE is actually the former Deputy Assistant Administrator of the office in question. Many of the leadership in the new Office of Training also came from that office. So there's definitely a desire, focus, and action within TSA to improve Training across the entire organization.

    The other thing that's being done...again, actually borrowing from a program that was done successfully in a particular office of TSA....is attempting to roll out a program over the entire organization aimed at improving and reshaping the culture within the agency in terms of accountability, focus on the mission, and workforce empowerment. It takes some time for corporate cultures to be changed and for those changes to infiltrate all levels, but over the few years since the program was done in the individual office there has been noticed improvements, and hopefully a similar trajectory is seen when implimented agency wide.
    I can't buy this as a reason. The department itself may be young. Lessons learned from enforcement and dealing with people are decades old and well-known.
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  7. #67
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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Out of the many overinflated, ill-conceived, and ineffective government agencies, the TSA is one of the most incompetent. Its staff, especially in this instance, acted not out of concern for the security of American citizens, but rather because of the control the individuals had to humiliate and inconvenience unsuspecting passengers. In other words, it was a powertrip. These pathetic individuals should immediately lose their jobs, and then suffer humiliation themselves at the hands of other Marines. There is no excuse for treating our veterans with such disrespect.

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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Alyssa View Post
    Out of the many overinflated, ill-conceived, and ineffective government agencies, the TSA is one of the most incompetent. Its staff, especially in this instance, acted not out of concern for the security of American citizens, but rather because of the control the individuals had to humiliate and inconvenience unsuspecting passengers. In other words, it was a powertrip. These pathetic individuals should immediately lose their jobs, and then suffer humiliation themselves at the hands of other Marines. There is no excuse for treating our veterans with such disrespect.
    Agreed. Perhaps these TSA agents should be sent to a Marine base for a couple of weeks of sensitivity training...
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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
    Agreed. Perhaps these TSA agents should be sent to a Marine base for a couple of weeks of sensitivity training...
    Their names, addresses, and pictures should definitely be posted on nearby Marine bases. Revenge would be sweet.

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    Re: TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Why is this a story? Are there people out there who think government workers are apt to apply common sense?

    I can imagine why the TSA did this. They're probably more likely to get fired for not doing this as opposed to doing it.

    Welcome to the government. Bush basically just treated DHS as an extension of the Patriot Act to get into everyone's business.
    TSA screeners aren't granted much in the way of discretion. There was a period where they were confiscating a style of car keys that was popular among luxury vehicles, those roundish ones that flip out "switchblade style." The rules said they had to confiscate "switchblade style" things, so they did. These BMW/Audi/Lexus/etc keys were literally less dangerous than a typical house key, because they were rounded laser-cut keys and their flip-out mechanism meant they didn't have a sturdy attachment to the base, but the random TSA grunt you met didn't have the option to let it through. They don't tell these guys "well as long as you really really think it's ok to let ___ through, go ahead." They have procedures that are to be followed without error, because error could theoretically mean disaster.

    It's stupid, it's intrusive, and it's all a grand theater to make us feel safer without actually making us safer, but none of that is the fault of the poor idiot at the security line. He didn't make the rules, but he can be fired if he doesn't follow them.
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