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Thread: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

  1. #71
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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    How so? There are no guns being confiscated, no mention of stopping the sale of guns for hunters, target shooters and those in marksman competition.
    Our gun rights do not exist for the benefit of sportsmen. They exist for the free citizenry to be able to defend themselves, their property, and their country.

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    So how is that militia treating you? Oh, you are not in one? Then you don't have a right to a gun along a strict translation. It is a good idea not to torpedo your own arguments like you just did.
    Jerry can explain better than I, but EVERYONE is part of the millitia. Hence EVERYONE can be armed. How do you think you can be drafted.
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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Jerry can explain better than I, but EVERYONE is part of the millitia. Hence EVERYONE can be armed. How do you think you can be drafted.
    Actually she cannot be drafted. The draft only covers those that are male between the ages of 18 and 46. Unless they changed it and I didn't know about it?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Actually she cannot be drafted. The draft only covers those that are male between the ages of 18 and 46. Unless they changed it and I didn't know about it?
    You know more than me on the draft. I presume the gist of my point is still sound?
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Here's the "tax" you want to scream about.



    It's a user fee. Why should NON gun owners be required to subsidize gun background checks?
    do non-gun owners vote and pay taxes?.... if so, they can ante up their share for the mandates their state government put on gun purchasers.... rest assured the gun owners who vote and pay taxes will be paying for it too.

    I want you to think long and hard about the notion of only having those whom make use of government services pay for them.


    as for fees vs taxes... it used to be clear.. a user fee was fine, as it was only to be used for a specific purpose(to fund whatever specific service the fee was levied on)
    In Colorado, that's no longer the case... funds from a fee can be transferred to the general fund to pay for general government ( which used to automatically define it as a "tax") and it's still not considered a tax.... in other words, the courts blurred the lines between fees and taxes making them indistinguishable.
    Barber v Ritter was the case that utterly demolished precedent set in Bloom V. City of Fort Collins.(Colorado supreme court cases)

    those whom live in Colorado are probably familiar with the increased fees on vehicle registration.... the probably aren't aware that some of that money goes to the general fund, which would have once defined it as a tax... the importance here is that tax increase have to go to the people for permission, fees do not.... blurring the line between taxes and fees now makes it legal to raise taxes without going to the citizens for permission.

    so yeah...arguing about fees versus taxes isn't as clear cut as you would like it to be....for all intents and purposes, fees are taxes in Colorado.

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    You know more than me on the draft. I presume the gist of my point is still sound?
    The gist yes.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    do non-gun owners vote and pay taxes?.... if so, they can ante up their share for the mandates their state government put on gun purchasers.... rest assured the gun owners who vote and pay taxes will be paying for it too.

    I want you to think long and hard about the notion of only having those whom make use of government services pay for them.


    as for fees vs taxes... it used to be clear.. a user fee was fine, as it was only to be used for a specific purpose(to fund whatever specific service the fee was levied on)
    In Colorado, that's no longer the case... funds from a fee can be transferred to the general fund to pay for general government ( which used to automatically define it as a "tax") and it's still not considered a tax.... in other words, the courts blurred the lines between fees and taxes making them indistinguishable.
    Barber v Ritter was the case that utterly demolished precedent set in Bloom V. City of Fort Collins.(Colorado supreme court cases)

    those whom live in Colorado are probably familiar with the increased fees on vehicle registration.... the probably aren't aware that some of that money goes to the general fund, which would have once defined it as a tax... the importance here is that tax increase have to go to the people for permission, fees do not.... blurring the line between taxes and fees now makes it legal to raise taxes without going to the citizens for permission.

    so yeah...arguing about fees versus taxes isn't as clear cut as you would like it to be....for all intents and purposes, fees are taxes in Colorado.
    I did not know this. it pains me.

  8. #78
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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    Gee, better roads, schools, bridges, or lower taxes. I take the former.
    Of course you do. The tax is being paid by someone other than you. That's the problem with a liberal mindset, they tend to be fine with rights being chipped away at and more taxes being paid as long as it is someone else. But propose that people be restricted from talking on the phone (which would be a great idea) while driving and those who do it go off like a Roman candle.
    X
    Every one of the firearms I own have been purchased thru a gun shop and I filled out the 4473 form for every one of them. For my 30 cal rifle nobody makes a mag bigger than 10 rounds which for me is fine. But my prefered target rifles are 22s and use either 10 or 25 round mags. For some events 10s are fine. For others not so much. When I go out plinking in the woods it's nice to just load a single 25 and head out. But regardless my issue is not with what I prefer. It is with limiting what others want to do. See, freedom is not just for me or you, it's for everyone and it is not my place to limit them because it is not my discipline. I even support people's rights to be idiots as long as they are not hurting anyone doing it. But these days it is getting out of hand and I think it's time we did something about it. There are clearly people who lack the depth to make decisions for others.
    Last edited by tech30528; 03-19-13 at 08:31 PM.

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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    do non-gun owners vote and pay taxes?.... if so, they can ante up their share for the mandates their state government put on gun purchasers.... rest assured the gun owners who vote and pay taxes will be paying for it too.

    [b]I want you to think long and hard about the notion of only having those whom make use of government services pay for them.[b/]

    Woah wait a minute. If the precedent has been set that government services will be paid for by the user does that mean my tax dollars will no longer pay for abortions? I'm in. I've bought 11 firearms in the past 3 years. I'll pay for mine, you pay for yours.

  10. #80
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    Re: Gov. John Hickenlooper To Sign Gun Control Measures Wednesday

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy Creek View Post
    I don't use the TV for anything but entertainment. Taxes are needed. The pleasure to own a gun is a taxing situation. See?
    No, I do not see. The right to own a gun should not be subject to taxation any more than the right to vote or the right to practice your religion ought to be.

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