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Thread: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I expressed my opinion about President Bush in two posts above, you expressed your opinion about President Bush in response to one of those posts. I respectfully responded, saying I disagree. If you want facts, go back and read my posts. If you want a continued, useless, back and forth argument talking past each other, I'm not interested. If that gives you satisfaction, glad to help.
    I saw your opinion, but no facts to verify. I gave facts, like the dismissal of needing 200,000 troops to try and stop a civil war. The past use of low level Nazis in post WWII Germany... BushII having no passport, railing against the SAM launches and he claim that in 1993 Saddam tried to assassinate BushI.

    Far from an isolationist, well on things like Koyoto, land mines and arms treaties he was a rejectionist, but he did see his 'destiny' as carving out a legacy overseas, 9/11 simply gave him a brief window for rash action.

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Is this a trick post? You agree with Canada's position or CanadaJohn's position?

    I agree with Canada and the majority of its citizens, not to join in the invasion of Iraq without approval of the invasion by the UN. They suffered less needless loss of life and they didn't incur the huge debt we did for the optional war.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I agree with Canada and the majority of its citizens, not to join in the invasion of Iraq without approval of the invasion by the UN. They suffered less needless loss of life and they didn't incur the huge debt we did for the optional war.
    Thanks for clearing that up and I respect your position. I personally have little respect for the UN and the UN is not a very popular body in Canada but you're right, most Canadians were opposed to joining the war in Iraq but did approve joining the war in Afghanistan. While not directly connected, the Canadian government was defeated shortly after the decision not to join the US and Britian in Iraq.

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up and I respect your position. I personally have little respect for the UN and the UN is not a very popular body in Canada but you're right, most Canadians were opposed to joining the war in Iraq but did approve joining the war in Afghanistan. While not directly connected, the Canadian government was defeated shortly after the decision not to join the US and Britian in Iraq.

    I think I remember reading that 71% of Canadians opposed invasion of Iraq. Most admirable!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I think I remember reading that 71% of Canadians opposed invasion of Iraq. Most admirable!
    Actually, Canadians originally opposed the war with Iraq without UN sanction and the Canadian government and the public in general were in favor of joining the US and Britian in the war if the UN sanctioned it. Canada continued to attempt to get the UN Security Council to sanction the action but once France vetoed any attempt to do so, the Canadian government declined to be an active participant even though Canada had significant numbers of troops in the gulf working with the US and they participated in the preparations and in actions. In fact, Canadian troop involvement outnumbered many countries who publically joined in the war.

    Once it became clear that the US and Britian, with other countries, were going ahead with the invasion, the Canadian public were supportive of that action. Traditionally, Canada has always been on the US side in these matters and the public was not about to side with Saddam against Bush in this action.

    At the time, Canada was led by a Prime Minister who was very much in support of the UN and was at one time considered a leading candidate to be Secretary General - he was not about to approve any action that was not sanctioned by the UN. Most Canadians were not of the same mind, this is why I say this contributed to the governments defeat in the next federal election.

    This article might interest you as it relates to Canada-US relations after the Iraq war - http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/may03/noble.pdf

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Actually, Canadians originally opposed the war with Iraq without UN sanction and the Canadian government and the public in general were in favor of joining the US and Britian in the war if the UN sanctioned it. Canada continued to attempt to get the UN Security Council to sanction the action but once France vetoed any attempt to do so, the Canadian government declined to be an active participant even though Canada had significant numbers of troops in the gulf working with the US and they participated in the preparations and in actions. In fact, Canadian troop involvement outnumbered many countries who publically joined in the war.

    Once it became clear that the US and Britian, with other countries, were going ahead with the invasion, the Canadian public were supportive of that action. Traditionally, Canada has always been on the US side in these matters and the public was not about to side with Saddam against Bush in this action.

    At the time, Canada was led by a Prime Minister who was very much in support of the UN and was at one time considered a leading candidate to be Secretary General - he was not about to approve any action that was not sanctioned by the UN. Most Canadians were not of the same mind, this is why I say this contributed to the governments defeat in the next federal election.

    This article might interest you as it relates to Canada-US relations after the Iraq war - http://www.irpp.org/po/archive/may03/noble.pdf


    "In March 2003, a poll conducted by EKOS Research Associates for the Toronto Star and the Montreal newspaper La Presse found 71% of those questioned did not support the United States-led invasion, with 27% expressing disapproval.
    Canada and the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "In March 2003, a poll conducted by EKOS Research Associates for the Toronto Star and the Montreal newspaper La Presse found 71% of those questioned did not support the United States-led invasion, with 27% expressing disapproval.
    Canada and the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Again, this poll was taken before the invasion began March 19, 2003 and was reflective of Canadians general preference to be part of a UN sanctioned invasion of Iraq, not a US led invasion. However, once the invasion began without UN sanction, Canadians were supportive of the US/British led invasion. Canadians, including our Prime Minister at the time, were supportive of the US initiative both generally and as it worked to get UN support. I would also indicate that the people of Quebec were generally opposed to going into Iraq with or without UN support and the Prime Minister was from Quebec and his position was partially reflective of politics in the province of Quebec.

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Most Canadians were not of the same mind, this is why I say this contributed to the governments defeat in the next federal election.
    That's absolute bull. You know the real reason the Liberals were voted out, and it has little to nothing to do with Iraq. In fact, despite the sponsorship scandal that had many a Canadian up in arms, the Conservatives only won by the skin of their teeth.

    In any event, let me clarify that most Canadians--apart from Stephen Harper, who, laughingly, wrote an apology ad in the WSJ -- were thrilled at the decision to not get involved with Iraq. In fact, millions from coast-to-coast marched against it.
    No men are anywhere, and Im allowed to go in, because Im the owner of the pageant and therefore Im inspecting it, Trump said... Is everyone OK? You know, theyre standing there with no clothes. Is everybody OK? And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    That's absolute bull. You know the real reason the Liberals were voted out, and it has little to nothing to do with Iraq. In fact, despite the sponsorship scandal that had many a Canadian up in arms, the Conservatives only won by the skin of their teeth.

    In any event, let me clarify that most Canadians--apart from Stephen Harper, who, laughingly, wrote an apology ad in the WSJ -- were thrilled at the decision to not get involved with Iraq. In fact, millions from coast-to-coast marched against it.
    You can believe what you want to believe - as I said, the Chretien government's position on Iraq did indeed play a part in the demise of Chretien and then the Liberal government. Was it the sole cause? - No - and I never claimed it was.

    Your claim that millions from coast-to-coast marched against it is utter nonsense and I defy you to point out any credible source that would support such a claim.

    The Canadian public eventually tired of our role in Afghanistan and pushed for withdrawal but except for a few of the usual professional protestors and union operatives (often one and the same) few Canadians got overly worked up about the war in Iraq, even years after the fact when the rationale for entering Iraq became questionable.

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    Re: 10 Years On, Paul Wolfowitz Admits U.S. Bungled in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by radioman View Post
    -----------------------
    Yes, but to decimate a foe completely, you to have an animus against that supposed foe, i.e. the Iraqi people.
    We had no beef against the hapless Iraqis.
    If we don't hate an enemy enough, we aren't willing to kill millions of innocent, enslaved people just to get rid of their despot.
    World War II was the last war fought---by the US---where we were willing to really decimate the enemy country--civilians and all.
    and it's the last war in which we had a clear victory.
    War is hell. We need to get beyond war as soon as possible.

    But, the history of man is the history of war, with the history books written by the victors.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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