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Thread: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

  1. #101
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    None of those companies are big oil and none western.
    Pardon? France, Italy and Spain are not "Western"? What are they - Micronesian?

    Total S.A. had assets of $205 billion last year. Not exactly small fry (Compare the mighty ConocoPhilips with $153 billion; Chevron had $209 B).


    The leftist narrative about "blood for oil" is simply dumb and offensive. It doesn't match any reality "before", "during" or "after".
    As you could notice, I am not defending the war - quite the opposite. But can we, please, dispose of the populist myths that cannot survive even a most casual encounter with facts?

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Pardon? France, Italy and Spain are not "Western"? What are they - Micronesian?

    Total S.A. had assets of $205 billion last year. Not exactly small fry (Compare the mighty ConocoPhilips with $153 billion; Chevron had $209 B).


    The leftist narrative about "blood for oil" is simply dumb and offensive. It doesn't match any reality "before", "during" or "after".
    As you could notice, I am not defending the war - quite the opposite. But can we, please, dispose of the populist myths that cannot survive even a most casual encounter with facts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post

    Even following the outbreak of the 1973 Yom Kippur war, Iraq did not nationalise the entire Basra Petroleum Company (BPC). On the 7 October the government announced that it had nationalised the shares of the American companies (Exxon and Mobil) in retaliation for the United States' support of Israel, and later that month it also nationalised the shares of Royal Dutch Shell for similar reasons. However in December 1975 President Bakr announced the complete takeover of foreign interests in the BPC, completing the nationalisation process."

    Nationalisation of Iraqi Oil Industry - Oil4All



    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not my argument, it was the plan from: "Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century" (before the 9/11 attack)

    Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis
    Sunday Herald, The, Oct 6, 2002 by Exclusive By Neil Mackay

    "President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East" and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US "military intervention" is necessary.

    Vice-president Dick Cheney, who chairs the White House Energy Policy Development Group, commissioned a report on "energy security" from the Baker Institute for Public Policy, a think-tank set up by James Baker, the former US secretary of state under George Bush Snr.

    The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century, concludes: "The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments.

    "The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies."

    Baker who delivered the recommendations to Cheney, the former chief executive of Texas oil firm Halliburton, was advised by Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, the US energy giant which went bankrupt after carrying out massive accountancy fraud.

    The other advisers to Baker were: Luis Giusti, a Shell non- executive director; John Manzoni, regional president of BP and David O'Reilly, chief executive of ChevronTexaco. Another name linked to the document is Sheikh Saud Al Nasser Al Sabah, the former Kuwaiti oil minister and a fellow of the Baker Institute."


    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20021006/ai_n12580286/
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    .......................
    Yeah, back in the 70s, the American and British companies were robbed, and the oil industry was nationalized. It is still nationalized. No compensation was ever paid to Exxon, Mobil or Shell, and all oil business in the country is done according to the decisions of the Ministry of Oil which makes deals with corporations that have the actual technical capacity to pump and transport the crude - exactly how it was done under Saddam, and mostly the same corporations.

    None of it makes a French or Italian oil behemoth "non-Western" or "small"

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Thanks, George. The war to nowhere has cost us $2 Trillion and will probably cost us several more before all is said and done. And people wonder why the economy tanked, the deficit is so high and then they blame Obama for the fact that we have no money now.


    That $6 Trillion could have bought us lots of bike paths, solar panels and high speed rail lines. But, no. Bush and his supporters had to start a war with a country that never did us any harm.


    Dolts.
    Yeah - I recall everyone pointing out while it was going on that it was costing us a lot of money.

    I mean - we were all geniuses back then.
    A screaming comes across the sky.
    It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Yeah, back in the 70s, the American and British companies were robbed, and the oil industry was nationalized. It is still nationalized. No compensation was ever paid to Exxon, Mobil or Shell, and all oil business in the country is done according to the decisions of the Ministry of Oil which makes deals with corporations that have the actual technical capacity to pump and transport the crude - exactly how it was done under Saddam, and mostly the same corporations.

    None of it makes a French or Italian oil behemoth "non-Western" or "small"
    cpwill predicts that new information makes precisely zero dent on the response to this.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    You mean the fact that the first Iraq war officially ended in 1995? Like I said, hurling a cruise missile or two does not constitute a war.

    If the war was "ongoing" then why did Bush need to have Congress vote on it in 2002?
    He wanted congress to vote on it because he was a firm believer in the US Constitution and the Weinberger doctrine. According to the Weinberger doctrine a Commander in Chief should not send troops into a war without any approval from congress, the elected representatives of the people. This is also why Bush kept the war spending separate from the overall federal budget. He had to know that the people's representatives approved the US military actions in Iraq.

    The US congress members change every 2 years. And the US Constitution states that congress has the power to declare war, not the president.
    Last edited by Muhammed; 03-16-13 at 08:17 AM.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    You posted no facts and figures, but Rueters did--$2 Trillion wasted.

    Or are you going to argue that there really were WMD, and that Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Powell and Rice were telling us the truth?
    John Kerry and Joe Biden seemed to have no problem going along with what they said.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    John Kerry and Joe Biden seemed to have no problem going along with what they said.
    That may explain why neither one is president today.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    He wanted congress to vote on it because he was a firm believer in the US Constitution and the Weinberger doctrine. According to the Weinberger doctrine a Commander in Chief should not send troops into a war without any approval from congress, the elected representatives of the people. This is also why Bush kept the war spending separate from the overall federal budget. He had to know that the people's representatives approved the US military actions in Iraq.

    The US congress members change every 2 years. And the US Constitution states that congress has the power to declare war, not the president.
    After leaving in 1995, the US had no boots on the ground in Iraq until 2003. Correct? Hostilities due to Saddam jacking around the weapon's inspectors and other violations of the peace agreement are not "war". End of discussion.

    You're trying to introduce apples into an orange grove.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    Yeah - I recall everyone pointing out while it was going on that it was costing us a lot of money.

    I mean - we were all geniuses back then.
    It wasn't a good idea to oppose the war back then. Doing so would land you on a no fly list, and put you on another list.
    Pentagon is keeping secret tabs on peaceful protest activities
    Documents released today by the American Civil Liberties Union confirm the Department of Defense (DOD) has been “spying” on peaceful protestors.

    The documents reveal the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC), a Quaker organization committed to the principles of nonviolence, came under Pentagon surveillance on several occasions last year for organizing or supporting peaceful protest activity.

    The Service Committee became lead plaintiff in a federal lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union earlier this year to uncover exactly who the Pentagon is spying on and why. The requests were made under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit filed in the wake of reports that the Defense Department has been conducting secret surveillance of legal protest activities and individuals whose only reported “wrong-doing” was “attending a peace rally.”
    They made sure that there would be no groundswell of peaceniks opposing their little war. Remember when the media, with their embedded reporters, served as nothing but a cheerleader for the invasion? It wasn't until after 2004 that the eyes began opening many of us saw that the emperor wore no clothes. Sadly, that's when the Right doubled down.

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