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Thread: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Total S.A. was making deals with the Baath. Total S.A. is making deals with the current Iraqi government. Things are exactly as they were 35 or 25 or 15 years ago.
    Big oil was kicked out of Iraq when they nationalized their oil in the 1970's, and was not allowed to return until our 2003 war on Iraq.
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    that's cute. he cites particulars and you cite bumper stickers.

    regardless, those companies are from all sorts of nations (we didn't even get the best spots), and we did not attempt to seize direct or exercise indirect control over the iraqi oilfields. reality continues to disprove the thesis that the United States went into Iraq after their oil

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Big oil was kicked out of Iraq when they nationalized their oil in the 1970's, and was not allowed to return until our 2003 war on Iraq.
    Nonsense. In 2002 alone, Saddam had signed agreements with Total, Eni, Repsol, and Tatneft ("Tat" stands for "Tatarstan", "neft" is "oil" - Russians). The socialist economy of the Baathist Iraq did not mean that the 'Big Oil' is kept out; only that the State controls the situation and takes the biggest cut - just as it is now. (The oil industry is still nationalized, of course; the "Big Oil" is still operating under licenses from Baghdad).
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 03-16-13 at 03:17 AM.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that's cute. he cites particulars and you cite bumper stickers.

    regardless, those companies are from all sorts of nations (we didn't even get the best spots), and we did not attempt to seize direct or exercise indirect control over the iraqi oilfields. reality continues to disprove the thesis that the United States went into Iraq after their oil


    It wasn't about seizing their oil. It was about getting big oil back in Iraq. If you had read Cheney's task force recommendations in 2001, you would know that the plan was to remove Saddam's regime which kicked big oil out of Iraq in the 70's when they nationalized their oil. They said Saddam was a destabilizing force in middle east oil prices, withholding oil, driving up costs, and they recommended a military option, all before we were attacked on 9/11.

    Now, thanks to our war, big oil is back in Iraq for the first time since the 1970s. Mission accomplished!
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Nonsense. In 2002 alone, Saddam had signed agreements with Total, Eni, Repsol, and Tatneft ("Tat" stands for "Tatarstan", "neft" is "oil" - Russians). The socialist economy of the Baathist Iraq did not mean that the 'Big Oil' is kept out; only that the State controls the situation and takes the biggest cut - just as it is now. (The oil industry is still nationalized, of course; the "Big Oil" is still operating under licenses from Baghdad).
    None of those companies are big oil and none western. Saddam let in the companies of those he was friendly with like Russia and the French, but the big mega oil companies from the US and England were locked out from the 1970s until our 2003 war.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    your argument literally makes no sense. Of course the recommendation was to remove the Saddam Regime. The recommendation from the Clinton Administration was the same. You continue to fail to demonstrate that the Iraq war was fought because we were after their oil.

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    your argument literally makes no sense. Of course the recommendation was to remove the Saddam Regime. The recommendation from the Clinton Administration was the same. You continue to fail to demonstrate that the Iraq war was fought because we were after their oil.
    Its not my argument, it was the plan from: "Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century" (before the 9/11 attack)

    Official: US oil at the heart of Iraq crisis
    Sunday Herald, The, Oct 6, 2002 by Exclusive By Neil Mackay

    "President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that "Iraq remains a destabilizing influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East" and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US "military intervention" is necessary.

    Vice-president Dick Cheney, who chairs the White House Energy Policy Development Group, commissioned a report on "energy security" from the Baker Institute for Public Policy, a think-tank set up by James Baker, the former US secretary of state under George Bush Snr.

    The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century, concludes: "The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments.

    "The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies."

    Baker who delivered the recommendations to Cheney, the former chief executive of Texas oil firm Halliburton, was advised by Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, the US energy giant which went bankrupt after carrying out massive accountancy fraud.

    The other advisers to Baker were: Luis Giusti, a Shell non- executive director; John Manzoni, regional president of BP and David O'Reilly, chief executive of ChevronTexaco. Another name linked to the document is Sheikh Saud Al Nasser Al Sabah, the former Kuwaiti oil minister and a fellow of the Baker Institute."


    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20021006/ai_n12580286/
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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    ""Prior to the 2003 invasion and occupation of Iraq, US and other western oil companies were all but completely shut out of Iraq's oil market," oil industry analyst Antonia Juhasz told Al Jazeera. "But thanks to the invasion and occupation, the companies are now back inside Iraq and producing oil there for the first time since being forced out of the country in 1973."

    Western oil firms remain as US exits Iraq - Features - Al Jazeera English


    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    your argument literally makes no sense. Of course the recommendation was to remove the Saddam Regime. The recommendation from the Clinton Administration was the same. You continue to fail to demonstrate that the Iraq war was fought because we were after their oil.
    Getting rid of Saddam was a priority interest, having Iraqi oil fields being tapped by certain businesses, that was an interest too. Are you under the false impression that we don't map out interests? If you're further unaware, we're also involved in the mapping out of our allies interests. See: "A Clean Break"

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    Re: Iraq war costs U.S. more than $2 trillion: study

    Prelude

    "From 1961, when the revolutionary regime of Abdel Karim Qasssim passed a law depriving the Iraq Petroleum Company (IPC) of the right to prospect in 99.5% of Iraqi territory, Iraq envisaged the creation of a nationally owned and run oil industry. The creation of the Iraq National Oil Company (INOC) in 1964 confirmed this, even if the INOC was originally set up with limited powers[2]

    Expropriation of IPC assets

    During the late 1960s and early 1970s Iraq continued to be dissatisfied with the way the IPC managed production levels in Iraq based on their commercial interests elsewhere, and there were various disputes about pricing[3]. Iraq also demanded a 20% equity stake in IPC, something which the San Remo Conference of the great powers in 1920 had envisaged but which the international partners in the IPC had denied them.[4]

    On the back of the rising tide of economic nationalism in Iraq and more broadly across the Middle East, the IPC offered in May 1972 to increase the Iraqi state's profits, raise production, and agree to some advance payments on royalties.[5] But the offers did not prove enough and on the 1 June 1972 the Iraqi government expropriated all of the IPC's assets in Iraq. Saddam Hussein, then formally vice-president to Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr, led the nationalisation process for the Baath Party.[6] Only the parent company IPC was affected by this move. Neither the Mosul nor the Basrah companies were included.[7]

    In 1973, Iraq and the IPC settled their claims and counter-claims. The IPC agreed to pay nearly US $350 million to Iraq as compensation for revenue lost to Iraq over the years when IPC was selling Iraqi oil. In return, the government agreed to provide to IPC 15 million tons of Kirkuk crude free of charge, valued at the time at over $300 million, in a final settlement of IPC claims. The Mosul Petroleum Company surrendered its concession to the government.[8]

    Nationalisation of the Basra Petroleum Company

    Even following the outbreak of the 1973 Yom Kippur war, Iraq did not nationalise the entire Basra Petroleum Company (BPC). On the 7 October the government announced that it had nationalised the shares of the American companies (Exxon and Mobil) in retaliation for the United States' support of Israel, and later that month it also nationalised the shares of Royal Dutch Shell for similar reasons. However in December 1975 President Bakr announced the complete takeover of foreign interests in the BPC, completing the nationalisation process."

    Nationalisation of Iraqi Oil Industry - Oil4All
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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