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Thread: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

  1. #31
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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Though I will say that my rant in the later half of my post was less aimed at you specifically, as you weren't trying to declare what native americans think, but rather to the general mindset of many of those pushing for the name change.
    Fair enough. I also am guilty of using someone post to remark on the general mindset of a thread.

    I'll echo your own comment to another poster. Grats?
    The first part of your post was directly aimed at me claiming I'm a white liberal that's offended for everyone else.

    I have no issue with people believing that something shouldn't or should offend someone. If you think native americans SHOULD be offended by the name, fine. If the other poster feels that htey shouldn't be offended by the name, fine. That's individual peoples opinions of what they FEEL people should think or feel. I don't rightly care about that.
    I don't think the argument should be whether someone SHOULD feel offended or not. The argument is if people are offended or not.

    I personally am not overly offended by the name because in general I'm not easily offended....but! to use your own earlier argument. I'm pretty sure it rubs a lot of minority groups in a bad way when a white person tells them what they should or should not be offended by.

    My issue is with those who would suggest or think to speak about what large groups of people DO feel with no evidence outside of anecdotal self experience or pointing to extremely small groups of the whole that just happen to be very loud.
    That's how virtually everything works. A couple million NRA members have dominated the discussion on gun control for decades for example.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  2. #32
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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    What would we call the state "Red People" if that happened?
    Eventually we have to not use any names. PETA can sue on behalf of the animals. The "Padres"...oh no...its insulting to have a team that bad associated to your name. Giants...what...we are offending exceptionally tall people? That's horrid! Patriots...hmmm...surely 'Patriots' is a correlation to violent zealots.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The first part of your post was directly aimed at me claiming I'm a white liberal that's offended for everyone else.
    Looking back, I did see I referenced you as that as well. In that case, I was wrong and my apologies.

    I don't think the argument should be whether someone SHOULD feel offended or not. The argument is if people are offended or not.
    I agree here. And that was the basis of my initial post. I'd love to see a more modern scientific, or even unscientific but still reputable, poll or survey done. But based on the ones that HAVE been done, I think people are hard pressed to say that "native americans" as some kind of significant group are offended by the name or feel that the name needs to change. Those polls go contrary to what many in the media, and in the public, try to tell us Native Americans ACTUALLY think.

    I agree that it rubs people the wrong way when a white person tells them they shouldn't be offended by something. But I think it's also rather insulting, and far less thought about by white people, when white individuals act as if they know better than the minorities in question and basically state that something is "offensive" to those people even when they don't think so themselves.

    That's how virtually everything works. A couple million NRA members have dominated the discussion on gun control for decades for example.
    True, but when you have polls done you're not seeing 90% of people that are part of the NRA having no issue with the primary things the NRA is trying to push.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Why would a team use a derogatory name for themselves? I'm part native american and I don't see the offense. If they called themselves the "WooWoo Savages" I might cry foul. What's with the word police lately don't we have enough real problems to tackle?
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Eventually we have to not use any names. PETA can sue on behalf of the animals. The "Padres"...oh no...its insulting to have a team that bad associated to your name. Giants...what...we are offending exceptionally tall people? That's horrid! Patriots...hmmm...surely 'Patriots' is a correlation to violent zealots.
    Eh, the "everything offends someone" to me argument isn't a strong one in my eye. There are a FEW Instances...like the FIGHTING Irish...that can be comparable. For example, Yankee was used at one time in this country as a derogatory term and is still OCCASIONALLY used as such, but it's largely seen as benign if not positive. But when people start spreading it out to things like the "Giants" which is all to common, it kind of loses steam in my mind.

    In part because while I think their argument is idiotic half the time, I still have to put my mind in theirs to see the REASON for their argument. And the reason is a misguided notion of it being offensive to a large group of people based on race/ethnicity/nationality which is a style of status that they hold as extra special. So things like Giants or even Patriots doesn't really fit.

    But yeah...I do find it interesting that because a state basically refers to Native Americans in the same way as the teams name, but does it in a language connected to Native Americans, no one bats an eye. The Team of the Redskins is bad, the State of the Red People...a-okay.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    The underlying complaint and evidence presented by the plaintiff is false. "Redskin" was not the word used for "bloody scalps", or the plaintiff has yet to provide any evidence that to back that claim. In fact, "Redskin" is what American Indian tribes called themselves. It dates back to at least the 1760s and possibly back to 1699 as the earliest source.

    This linguistic professor found much the same thing.

    So no, you can't make crap up and then demand that others change to suit your imagination.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Getting worked up over such meaningless minutiae says more about the offended than the offender.
    I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't like it if the Texans had chosen the Houston White Devils for example. Racially offensive language is not appropriate. There shouldn't be a team called the Miami kikes, or the Phoenix spicks either.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Middleground View Post
    Does this mean people won't be able to scalp tickets if they change names?
    I nominate this for Post of the Day.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Random points...

    • I fail to see the legitimacy of the outrage.
    • There are plenty of indians who are just fine with it, but you almost never see them interviewed as a matter of the media presenting balance.
    • There's a part of me that wants to stock up on Redskins merchandise. Not for any investment purpose, but just to wear it when the name does change. (I think it's a matter of time, unfortunately.)
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    I'm not sure about that. I wouldn't like it if the Texans had chosen the Houston White Devils for example. Racially offensive language is not appropriate. There shouldn't be a team called the Miami kikes, or the Phoenix spicks either.
    1) On what do you base the notion that the name is "offensive"?

    2) I'd have no issue with a team named the "White Devils" where it's depicted as their mascot and theme is that of a "Devil" ala the Blue Devils, Sun Devils, Red Devils, etc.

    3) Even if you removed political correctness out of the equation, you wouldn't see a team named the Miami Kikes, the Phoenix Spicks, or the "houston white [people] devils" because when you look at the entire swatch of sports you don't see teams naming themselves off of things that are viewed as negative. You don't see "The Chicago Hobos". You don't see the San Franciso Dumbasses. You don't see the Seattle Crack Addicts. You don't see the Boston WASPS. You don't see the Mississippi Hillbillies or the Birmingham Racists. That's because a fan base typically isn't in favor of supporting, cheering for, and taking pride in something that is inherently negative in the modern societal understanding and notion.

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