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Thread: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Getting worked up over such meaningless minutiae says more about the offended than the offender.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I'm sure Native Americans and African Americans are willing to defer to your judgement on what should or should not offend them.
    In terms of native americans, I'm sure they're as willing to defer to someone like him as they are to someone like you or the handful of overly sensitive white individuals, or the handful of "Every minority must think like us" blacks, in the media of the public.

    I love when people try to lecture others about telling people what Native Americans "think" while they largely sit there and are doing the same thing. Disparate groups of a statistically insignificant number of native americans do not represent nor indicate any truth of a majority feel. I'd still welcome anyone providing a more current bit of factual information, but till then I'll refer back to what I pointed at before...

    Additionally, I don't rely on non native americans in the Public and the Media to dictate to me what should or shouldn't offend or bother native americans on the whole. In 2001, in an admittedly questionable in it's scientific method of being conducted, Sports Illustrated conducted a poll and found that over 80% of native american respondents suggested they didn't believe that teams should change their name. Even amongst those native americans living on a reservation, still 2/3rds of them felt the names shouldn't change (LINK). Meanwhile, if you want something more specific to "Redskins" and more scientific, the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania conducted a scientific poll back in 2004. It found that 9% of native american respondents found it offensive. NINE PERCENT. Ten times that number, 90%, found that the name didn’t bother them (LINK).

    Now, I fully admit that these studies are old, going on a decade. I’d be happy to see anything more recent. But their age doesn’t change the results that occurred, nor is it unreasonable to think there hasn’t been a seismic shift to put the other side over the top. There are a very vocal activist minority within the native American community that are upset about the name and they make a lot of noise. However, those who make the loudest noise do not automatically represent how the majority of a group feel. And I think it’s hilarious watching non native Americans attempting to tell people what native Americans feel on an issue based not on what the majority of them actually FEEL, but based on what those non natives Americans THINK they should feel.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    this Native American certainly does


    the only thing that will change after this non-issue is the size of the attorneys' bank accounts
    Grats? You allow someone to decide when you have a right to be offended?

    Actually after this if they win the Washington Redskins will be renamed which is the point of them bringing the case to court.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Just change the name to Foreskins. It's perfectly succinct...the team is useless and a cut below the rest all the while it sounds almost the same.
    “No men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in, because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it,” Trump said... “‘Is everyone OK’? You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody OK?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so I sort of get away with things like that.”

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In terms of native americans, I'm sure they're as willing to defer to someone like him as they are to someone like you or the handful of overly sensitive white individuals, or the handful of "Every minority must think like us" blacks, in the media of the public.

    I love when people try to lecture others about telling people what Native Americans "think" while they largely sit there and are doing the same thing. Disparate groups of a statistically insignificant number of native americans do not represent nor indicate any truth of a majority feel. I'd still welcome anyone providing a more current bit of factual information, but till then I'll refer back to what I pointed at before...
    Swing and a miss. My grandmother grew up on a reservation and I'm a card carrying member of the tribe I belong to.

    I also didn't lecture anyone. I criticized someone claiming they somehow are the arbitrator of what someone should/should not be offended by. In fact the only person claming to have insight on what someone should or should not think is the person I responded to. Maybe you should take your self rightous rant to him?
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I work with several tribal counselors, relatives of a tribal chief, and people that work at the walk-in center. They refer to themselves by their specific tribe, but as a general term...Indian. They also refer to themselves using a common Canadian descriptor..."first people".

    During a multicultural presentation a few years back a young fresh faced masters student nervously asked one of the panel members "I dont want to be inappropriate...but...Im not sure...what to call you..." His response...well...I prefer 'Joe'....
    I'll admit, when I attended NNALEA two years ago I was surprised how many of the individuals used the word Indian. You grow up for so long being told "offensive, offensive, offensive" and then suddenly see those that its supposed to be "offensive against" using it and it just kind of makes you blink your eyes and wonder who really is the individuals pushing these things sometimes.

    Living in Washington, the ridiculous faux outrage over this by those bleeding hearts in the media who cry every night because they couldn't make it writing about politics and got stuck in sports drives me nuts. It drives me nuts because it's nothing but a "Feel good" cause that they can clap themselves on the back for and act like they're doing some great, good deed while being horribly ignorant of reality. If Mike Wise or Jay Reed wants to help raise awareness to the plight of Native American's in this nation why don't they focus some of their time on the horrible conditions in many reservations? The ASTONISHINGLY high percentage of young women that are raped on reservations? The prevalence of child AND elder abuse? The massive, widespread, devastating amounts of unemployment within the population? But no...those would be tough, those would be things that would ACTUALLY help native Americans, they need to focus on a name of a football team that doesn't invoke hateful views or thoughts towards native americans and will cause ZERO change in the general lives of the majority of them.

    It's idiotic, disgusting, politically correct, make myself feel good because I'm fighting "for the cause" hollow activism.

    The funniest thing is Wise likes to bitch and moan about the "caricature" of native americans the Redskins supposedly cause to have (never mind that the official things that were often referenced...a mascot, the band with headdress, etc is gone) and yet if you asked him if he thinks the name "Buffalo Bills" is ALSO offensive he'd look at you like a bloody fool. Buffalo Bill Cody, who the team is named after, was one of the biggest individuals responsible for ingraining the notion of the feathered and painted warrior savage as the last threat against civilization into the American psyche. Not to mention his hand in the demolishing of the American Buffalo population with his own, and popularizing the notion, of extensive wasteful hunts of them. Activism without thought is ignorance.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Swing and a miss. My grandmother grew up on a reservation and I'm a card carrying member of the tribe I belong to.
    I'll echo your own comment to another poster. Grats?

    I have no issue with people believing that something shouldn't or should offend someone. If you think native americans SHOULD be offended by the name, fine. If the other poster feels that htey shouldn't be offended by the name, fine. That's individual peoples opinions of what they FEEL people should think or feel. I don't rightly care about that.

    My issue is with those who would suggest or think to speak about what large groups of people DO feel with no evidence outside of anecdotal self experience or pointing to extremely small groups of the whole that just happen to be very loud. Though I will say that my rant in the later half of my post was less aimed at you specifically, as you weren't trying to declare what native americans think, but rather to the general mindset of many of those pushing for the name change.

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    Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'll admit, when I attended NNALEA two years ago I was surprised how many of the individuals used the word Indian. You grow up for so long being told "offensive, offensive, offensive" and then suddenly see those that its supposed to be "offensive against" using it and it just kind of makes you blink your eyes and wonder who really is the individuals pushing these things sometimes.

    Living in Washington, the ridiculous faux outrage over this by those bleeding hearts in the media who cry every night because they couldn't make it writing about politics and got stuck in sports drives me nuts. It drives me nuts because it's nothing but a "Feel good" cause that they can clap themselves on the back for and act like they're doing some great, good deed while being horribly ignorant of reality. If Mike Wise or Jay Reed wants to help raise awareness to the plight of Native American's in this nation why don't they focus some of their time on the horrible conditions in many reservations? The ASTONISHINGLY high percentage of young women that are raped on reservations? The prevalence of child AND elder abuse? The massive, widespread, devastating amounts of unemployment within the population? But no...those would be tough, those would be things that would ACTUALLY help native Americans, they need to focus on a name of a football team that doesn't invoke hateful views or thoughts towards native americans and will cause ZERO change in the general lives of the majority of them.

    It's idiotic, disgusting, politically correct, make myself feel good because I'm fighting "for the cause" hollow activism.

    The funniest thing is Wise likes to bitch and moan about the "caricature" of native americans the Redskins supposedly cause to have (never mind that the official things that were often referenced...a mascot, the band with headdress, etc is gone) and yet if you asked him if he thinks the name "Buffalo Bills" is ALSO offensive he'd look at you like a bloody fool. Buffalo Bill Cody, who the team is named after, was one of the biggest individuals responsible for ingraining the notion of the feathered and painted warrior savage as the last threat against civilization into the American psyche. Not to mention his hand in the demolishing of the American Buffalo population with his own, and popularizing the notion, of extensive wasteful hunts of them. Activism without thought is ignorance.
    Completely agree. Domestic violence and sexual assault is very commonplace and unfortunately, the segregation (real and implied, self or otherwise) prevents women from seeking help. Drug abuse is rampant, gang participation is commonplace, unemployment (in areas without casinos) is staggering. I know people that have taken fed jobs providing clinical services on some of the reservations and they say it is a completely frustrating exercise. Most that come to see them are court (tribal) ordered and it is just a means of filling squares. Investigation of allegations is virtually impossible. In many ways its not unlike trying to get services to illegal immigrants. There is simply no trust, no real opportunity, no hope that it is going to get better, so...acceptance.

    But lets focus on the PC concerns about the names of sports teams. The Seminoles seem to have worked stuff out satisfactorily, as have many other sports teams. In Atlanta several years ago (may have changed) one of the 'nods' was that he team made contributions to tribal affairs and allowed the tribes to provide vendor goods for sale at FC stadium.

    Of course...we COULD just remove all Indian names from schools, cities, streets, etc.

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    What would we call the state "Red People" if that happened?

    Here's an interesting article and take in regards to the origins of the word. I'll note, while I find it interesting I agree with the Smithsonians researcher in regards to the origins and the controversy:

    Goddard, aware of the lawsuit and Harjo's arguments, said that "you could believe everything in my article" and still oppose current public usage of "redskin."
    But still, it's an interesting read, LINK

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    Re: Redskins Name Lawsuit Heard By Federal Board

    The Washington Reds. That sounds right to me.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 03-08-13 at 01:02 PM.

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