Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 33

Thread: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

  1. #21
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So when it comes to drones, the need for due process can be satisfied after the drone blows the terrorist to kingdom come.
    In extreme circumstances that are time critical, yes. The problem is that currently there is no due process whatsoever, not even after the fact. The Obama administrations opinion is that they can kill without any kind of judicial oversight whatsoever.

  2. #22
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    You now enter the theater of the absurd. Due process after a death penalty is executed.
    That may be true, but its less absurd that the death penalty with no due process whatsoever. I don't personally buy the "ticking time bomb scenarios" which never have actually happened as an excuse to violate civil liberties, but it appears bad thrillers are the basis for public policy. You can make a stronger case in the current political climate if you can defeat all the bull**** "but it lets terrorists get away" arguments in advance. Levying appropriate penalties for failing to obtain a conviction in after-the-fact, say charges for first degree murder, would provide a reasonable check on abuse.

  3. #23
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    The drones are primarily for spying on Americans - which I oppose. Putting weapons on them for which anyone operating it remotely like a computer video game can attack anyone anywhere is vastly worse.

    I can think of NO situation where a drone could be launched and be on target faster than a F16 - which is faster and more heavily armed too - plus more versatile in usage too for more than just killing Americans in the USA on the ground.

  4. #24
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    That may be true, but its less absurd that the death penalty with no due process whatsoever. I don't personally buy the "ticking time bomb scenarios" which never have actually happened as an excuse to violate civil liberties, but it appears bad thrillers are the basis for public policy. You can make a stronger case in the current political climate if you can defeat all the bull**** "but it lets terrorists get away" arguments in advance. Levying appropriate penalties for failing to obtain a conviction in after-the-fact, say charges for first degree murder, would provide a reasonable check on abuse.
    The government is never going to convict itself of murder, or anything else, when it comes to the "war on terror."

    The BEST way to avoid abuse is to outlaw the means to do so. I also oppose ever increasing technology to spy on Americans to being with. However, I also think there are inherently better safeguards in having to take off a fighter aircraft with a pilot than someone in Omaha operating a computer in this mythical senario the government is preparing for.

    There are essentially no circumstances where assasination of an American in the USA should be done, though historically it was done such as against organized crime members etc. Bonnie and Clyde were essentially assasinated.

  5. #25
    Sage
    sangha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lower Hudson Valley, NY
    Last Seen
    09-17-17 @ 05:48 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    59,990

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    In extreme circumstances that are time critical, yes. The problem is that currently there is no due process whatsoever, not even after the fact. The Obama administrations opinion is that they can kill without any kind of judicial oversight whatsoever.
    I agree that is a problem.

    Not the use of drones, but the use of drones with no accountability or review
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #26
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The government is never going to convict itself of murder, or anything else, when it comes to the "war on terror."
    Maybe not in the current climate, but it would at least embarrass them.

    The BEST way to avoid abuse is to outlaw the means to do so. I also oppose ever increasing technology to spy on Americans to being with. However, I also think there are inherently better safeguards in having to take off a fighter aircraft with a pilot than someone in Omaha operating a computer in this mythical senario the government is preparing for.
    I don't think trying to ban the means would be effective. If you look at historical precedent, the state doesn't need anything more complicated a spear to murder its citizens. Focusing on the separation of powers and legal justification has less loopholes.

    There are essentially no circumstances where assasination of an American in the USA should be done, though historically it was done such as against organized crime members etc. Bonnie and Clyde were essentially assasinated.
    From a practical perspective Bonnie and Clyde were assassinated, but there was still an attempt to pretend the shot was preceding by a warning. The thing that is so dangerous about the current situation is that the government isn't merely violating citizens rights, its declaring that the rights don't exist. That is a far more dangerous precedent.

  7. #27
    Sage



    Jack Fabulous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    midwest
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    10,703
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    I've kind of been all over the place when it comes to how I feel about this issue. I guess now that I've had a little time to digest it, it comes down to this. If there is currently a situation where the President could give an order to "shoot to kill" then it shouldn't really matter if the shot comes from a sniper's rifle or from an unmanned drone.

    If there is no such situation currently where the President could legally issue a "shoot to kill" order then what the hell are we talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.

  8. #28
    Educator AreteCourage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Last Seen
    08-30-13 @ 12:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    790

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Maybe not in the current climate, but it would at least embarrass them.
    Oh yeah because that is correct. People got murdered and they are a little red faced with a whoopsie!
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

  9. #29
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    Oh yeah because that is correct. People got murdered and they are a little red faced with a whoopsie!
    Of course its not correct. Its simply is the unfortunate reality we live in. When congress and the judiciary refuse to check abuse of power by the executive, causing political embarrassment is probably the most effective tactic left. I don't consider throwing a pie in somebodies face to be the appropriate consequence for murder, but a little banana cream deterrent is better than nothing if justice fails.

  10. #30
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    18,243

    Re: Cruz, Paul Introduce Bill to Prohibit Drone Killings of U.S. Citizens

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I agree that is a problem.

    Not the use of drones, but the use of drones with no accountability or review
    This one was pretty bold ...

    obama - last supper.jpg

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •