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Thread: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If the Senate works procedurally like I used to experience here, a member may yield time to another member and when he returns that other member may yield time back to him. As I understand it, so far today several Republicans have done this for him as well as Senator Wyden, a Democrat from Oregon who also opposes the Obama drone doctrine.
    That's what I was thinking, but apparently he's not allowed to leave the senate floor, is what I just read at the NY times. That's insane. He should've gone with a stadium buddy.
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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    It was an interesting grandstand that brought rand's name back into the spotlight and fired up his base. Still, in the end this was just a huge distraction from the many problems that face the country, and even he did not believe in the reason he was doing it. The confirmation as going to happen anyway, by his own admission, and though the thing about drone strikes on US citizens on US soil was an interesting topic, it was a distraction from the job at hand, and he did not even get the senate to vote on that specific issue. So rand blathered on for many hours doing nothing, saying random stuff, and proving he is ineffective at actually getting something done despite working really hard at it because even he admits he was going the wrong direction. Even the republicans and conservatives could see a reason the US might have to act in immediacy with drones to save lives. At least they weren't doing anything useful anyway. I guess it is official that rand is going to take up his father's mantle of failed presidential runs in the future and we will have a paul to kick around for the immediate future. The hipsters and pseudo libertarians will be so happy. It is really bad when you are a right wing flunkie and the republicans won't goosestep with you when you are attacking obama.

    This all seems so stupid as they would have wasted those hours anyway. they didn't need to highlight it all with some pointless grandstanding to spotlight their lack of accomplishment.
    When is it ok to send a drone to kill an American eating a burger somewhere in Kansas in order to "save lives"? Is a tip good enough? If the government had a tip that McVeigh was heading to OKC in a Ryder truck loaded with a homemade bomb, would it be prudent to send a drone and blow him out of his wheels on I-40?

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Shoulda read game of thrones.
    It does go well with discussions on the budget



    as my sig doth suggest

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    When is it ok to send a drone to kill an American eating a burger somewhere in Kansas in order to "save lives"?
    Actually, i never claimed such a thing, nor did anyone else so this is just a perversion of reality. Nor do i think the government is going to do such a thing without any cause. not that i think the government would not screw a person's life, just that they have much easier and less conspicuous ways of doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Is a tip good enough? If the government had a tip that McVeigh was heading to OKC in a Ryder truck loaded with a homemade bomb, would it be prudent to send a drone and blow him out of his wheels on I-40?
    yes, actually in your example it would have. oddly enough i think these regulations have far more to do with mcVeigh than any foreign terrorists. the patriot act has much more to do with domestic terrorism than it does with foreign terrorism.

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    1. Actually, i never claimed such a thing, nor did anyone else so this is just a perversion of reality. Nor do i think the government is going to do such a thing without any cause. not that i think the government would not screw a person's life, just that they have much easier and less conspicuous ways of doing so.


    2. yes, actually in your example it would have. oddly enough i think these regulations have far more to do with mcVeigh than any foreign terrorists. the patriot act has much more to do with domestic terrorism than it does with foreign terrorism.
    How does your argument in #2 not override what you wrote in #1?

    2. I could not disagree more. If the "tip" tells you McVeigh is heading to a federal building with a truckload of explosives, then LEO needs to stop him and arrest him, not send a drone up in the sky to blast him to kingdom come.

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    He should have read "Game Change" instead.
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    It was an interesting grandstand that brought rand's name back into the spotlight and fired up his base. Still, in the end this was just a huge distraction from the many problems that face the country, and even he did not believe in the reason he was doing it.
    Actually, they should have filibustered a while ago when NDAA 2012 was up. Obama said he would not sign it and yet he did. As Rand asked, "Where is the Obama of 2007?" He sold out.
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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    It's amazing that a person questioning the authority and scope of the Executive Branch to deprive people of their rights of due process, and potentially take unilateral military action against U.S. Citizens without judicial review, is insulted somehow for "playing to the base" of the Republican party. Turn back the dial 4 to 5 years ago and you had those on the other side who now claim that this sort of thing is just "playing to the base" demanding trails, making accusations of war crimes, declaring a person fascist, holding giant marches, and other such things on issues they felt wrongly extended the scope of the Executive, denied people due process, and lack of judicial review.

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    I believe AG Holder's testimony has been twisted to the point of breaking.

    Grandstanding Sen. Paul asked a series of what-ifs and Holder testified that wouldn't happen, only in an imminent threat would a drone strike be sanctioned.

    Some now wail that the Administration has some newly increased right to 'slaughter' Citizens without due process.

    But let's look at that claim.

    As it stands now if a US Citizen is part of a highjack crew to fly an airliner into a high value target, the military will attempt to intercept the plane, which means shoot it down killing ALL onboard.

    Not a lot of 'due process' involved

    When asked if a drone strike would be authorized on a suspect sitting in a coffee shop with no imminent threat, what we routinely do overseas, the answer was a very firm- NO.

    A cop can kill anyone he deems an imminent threat without 'due process', so can a CCW.

    So I see Sen Paul's stunt as little more than that. He and his party can hold hearing on drone use and bring it into the open- a move I think is long overdo- rather than attempt a pretty pitiful attempt to block the CIA director from being confirmed- that is going to happen.

    Now on the McVeigh example. His truck bomb was parked infront of a building not under it and it still blew off the front half and sent shrapnel a city block away. Suppose enough cops could be marshaled on the road to form an effective road block. How many of them would die if Tim decided to detonate?

    I'd say the problem isn't drones but rather the basic new laws counter-terrorism operates under in this country.

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    Re: Senator Rand Paul's Epic Filibuster: Reads 'Alice in Wonderland'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    It's amazing that a person questioning the authority and scope of the Executive Branch to deprive people of their rights of due process, and potentially take unilateral military action against U.S. Citizens without judicial review, is insulted somehow for "playing to the base" of the Republican party. Turn back the dial 4 to 5 years ago and you had those on the other side who now claim that this sort of thing is just "playing to the base" demanding trails, making accusations of war crimes, declaring a person fascist, holding giant marches, and other such things on issues they felt wrongly extended the scope of the Executive, denied people due process, and lack of judicial review.
    You hit the nail on the head. Many on the left, who bashed Bush for spying on the American people, are giving Obama a huge pass on this, and are even supporting him. I guess this goes to human nature - "It's horrible, except when our side is doing it. Then, it's the right thing to do". Such hypocricy. I have often criticized Republicans for being hypocrites, but today, the Democrats have taken the cake and eaten it too.
    Last edited by danarhea; 03-07-13 at 10:47 AM.
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