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House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

I mus have forgotten how every part of a Real Mans body is so very sensitive



So widely available that you can't post one




The "poor pitiful men" shtick is pitifully hilarious and demonstrates that your agenda has little to do with anything that's actually in VAWA

Argument done, really there is nothing else I have to debate with you about. You have already conceded loudly and openly that you are a misandrist. If I were to change "men" to "women" in the statements you made you would immediately and loudly be called out as a misogynist. And that would be the most polite thing said, followed by many other words as well.
 
So what your saying is, that if a bill came out titled "Violence against Whites Act", you would have no problem with it if the content of the bill could be applied to everyone?

I don't answer pointless questions designed to distract from the reality of the situation. The bill was good enough to actually get republican support despite being also supported by their evil nemisis Obama. So despite your attempts to make this about a name and to attempt to bring some nonexistent racism into this, I am not going to bite. White if obama made a kill a christian day? if you are going to make up what ifs and substitute them for a real argument then you have no argument. Fine you don't like the name and were ignorant of what else it said. That is nice and all, but that does not make an actual argument against the act. It also does not make the act actually prejudiced against men despite your clear attempts to make this about that.


Well, I think it is a bit disturbing that they choose to focus on a female that was molested. As we know, both males and females are molested at equal rates.

first girls tend to get more sympathy, so yeah they would use a girl in regards to that. Due to the different ways people treat the genders naming it after a boy would actually harm the boy a second time. For whatever the psychological reasons people tend to regard molested boys a lot differently than girls. So yes i can see why they chose a female over a male to nam the bill after. In the end it does not matter who they named it after, what matters is the content. Again, all you have is some petty objection, and no real argument against anything. Even your ideas make little sense. think about an actual name like house bill 1124389. Actually that would be a lot closer to the actual legal titles of acts. Again, they use something catchy for the public as titles like that really bore the hell out of people and end up being overlooked. if the government does not do it the media most certainly will. if you don't like titles the Defense of marriage act actually weakened the strength of marriages across state lines by giving the states the ability to ignore other states marriages. but would people have accepted it if it were the weakening of the marriage contract act or Public Law 104-199 which is it's actual title? I don't think so. Don't worry, all of these things have a very benign and neutral designation, since it bothers you, and your argument over the name is completely unwarranted as they are not actually listed under the more memorable names. If it makes you feel any better the law's actual title is Pub.L. 103–322 in congressional record (That is the violence against women act created in 1994). Not that it will actually sway you to know that a neutral numbered designation was actually used, but I like to be thorough in destroying a point. I could easily look up megan's law's actual numerical title if you want, but I am pretty sure whatever neutral numerical designation it has probably does not interest you at all.
However, the law itself highlights child molestation which is all inclusive. When we talk about Megan, we know we are really talking about all children. But when we talk about Womens Violence, we know we are only talking about women because the title generalizes who the legislation is being targeted twords. But a law specifically targeted at all children named Megan, would be as rediculous as a law only targeted at women only.

So if you recognize tht it is ridiculous to think that the easy to remember name they give a law for the sake of the public is just an easy to remember name, and that implying what the law is actually about based on those couple of words would cause you to make some really silly assumptions about the content, then your entire argument is based on the idea you jumped to some massive conclusions while remaining completely ignorant of the content of the law. this is not something that a neutral title like Pub.L. 103–322 indication the 322 law of the 103rd congress would actually clarify for you. If you want to know the full content of the law you have to actually read the law. using the entire law's text as a title would be unruly and no one would actually do it. titles are short and do not embody the nuances and reality of the law itself. This is a limitation brought about by language and human psychology. A title for a law is simply not going to include the entire text of the law. So your argument has been trashed in every conceivable way at this point. it is just simply not possible to title things in a way that describes the entire effects of a bill. You are wanting them to do the impossible and making a ridiculous request and complaint when you ask for the title to include everything about the bill. So yes you will actually have to read the bill to make intelligent arguments against it. if you are only going to go by the title your arguments will suck because the title is not meant to be the actual law.
 
I don't answer pointless questions designed to distract from the reality of the situation.
How convinient for you, just dodge the question. In essence, you are picking and choosing debating points, but thats ok. I know the reasoning behind calling it the Violence Against Womans Act. And if you are not going to debate that point, I will just take the win on that.

The bill was good enough to actually get republican support despite being also supported by their evil nemisis Obama.

Yes, they got something done, they passed a completely useless law that does absolutely nothing but pander to the feminist agenda.

So despite your attempts to make this about a name and to attempt to bring some nonexistent racism into this, I am not going to bite.

You can continue to live in ignorance, or perhaps just ignore the obvious, both are the same in my book. The evidence and statistics are there. If any other group of people were headed in the direction of males, there would be protests. Dieing 7 years earlier, committing suicides at 7 times the rate of women, comprise of 90% of the workplace deaths, Falling behind in education, Make up the majority of the prison population, Are the vast majority of people who are victims of violent crime.. If lets say, women were in this boat, there would be millions marching on washington. But as I said, no one cares about men. And society is paying for it today. You can close your eyes to it if you wish, but it will be at your own plight and the plight of society.

White if obama made a kill a christian day? if you are going to make up what ifs and substitute them for a real argument then you have no argument. Fine you don't like the name and were ignorant of what else it said. That is nice and all, but that does not make an actual argument against the act. It also does not make the act actually prejudiced against men despite your clear attempts to make this about that.

Sure it does. If we were to start a program to help and fund grants for only white people who are impoverished, there would be flags burning in the streets. Even though whites are probably less effected by poverty than any other demographic. The same goes for violence against women. They are probably the least effected of any group when it comes to violence, yet we are putting money and media behind the cause of protecting women from violence.




first girls tend to get more sympathy, so yeah they would use a girl in regards to that. Due to the different ways people treat the genders naming it after a boy would actually harm the boy a second time. For whatever the psychological reasons people tend to regard molested boys a lot differently than girls. So yes i can see why they chose a female over a male to nam the bill after.
And that is what I have a problem with. BINGO!!! You are headed in the right direction with the above statement. Women speak of equality, and tell men that they need to change from the old traditional roles. Yet women have not made this transition. They want men to change from traditional to more accepting of the new roles women want to take on, but women are not changing their traditional thinking on what is expected of men. They still marry up, they still expect men to be traditional men when things start getting tough. They still expect men to supress their internal pain. At the slightest sign of weakness, women jump on them like cougars to disparage them and tell them to act like men. I hear things all the time when men try to express themselves in ways women may not like by being told they have small penises, or that they are not a man, or that maybe they are compensating, or they are weak..ect..ect... You would never hear this from a man when a woman is saying something he may not like about himself that may be true.

In the end it does not matter who they named it after, what matters is the content. Again, all you have is some petty objection, and no real argument against anything. Even your ideas make little sense. think about an actual name like house bill 1124389. Actually that would be a lot closer to the actual legal titles of acts. Again, they use something catchy for the public as titles like that really bore the hell out of people and end up being overlooked. if the government does not do it the media most certainly will. if you don't like titles the Defense of marriage act actually weakened the strength of marriages across state lines by giving the states the ability to ignore other states marriages. but would people have accepted it if it were the weakening of the marriage contract act or Public Law 104-199 which is it's actual title? I don't think so. Don't worry, all of these things have a very benign and neutral designation, since it bothers you, and your argument over the name is completely unwarranted as they are not actually listed under the more memorable names. If it makes you feel any better the law's actual title is Pub.L. 103–322 in congressional record (That is the violence against women act created in 1994). Not that it will actually sway you to know that a neutral numbered designation was actually used, but I like to be thorough in destroying a point. I could easily look up megan's law's actual numerical title if you want, but I am pretty sure whatever neutral numerical designation it has probably does not interest you at all.

Again, your missing the point completely. I would have no problem with the name of the bill if in fact there was a reason to have a Violence Against Women's act. But there is not, and there is no reason to name it that if it applies to all people. I was not born yesterday, and I am sure you understand this as well and are just being purposefully ignorant to the fact. Its all about politics and agenda's. There was a very specific reason this was named what it was named. It has nothing to do with it being catchy. If you want a catchy name there are thousands of options. It could have been called.. How many trees could a wood chuck chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood act. But they did not name it that, and there is a reason they named it what they did. Politicians are very purposeful when it comes to titling a bill and having their name appear on it. Don't be ignorant and tell me... oh well, they just needed a catchy name. That is complete BS!
 
I am not at all surprised at how many words one can spew to oppose a law without saying anything at all about the actual law itself.
 
I am not at all surprised at how many words one can spew to oppose a law without saying anything at all about the actual law itself.

The content of the bill is irrelevant as to the point I am trying to make.
 
Of course it's irrelevant!!

After all, the bill is the topic of this thread, so why even mention it?

I never argued against any of the provisions of the bill, my argument was that a bill was passed called "Violence against Womans Act".
 
I never argued against any of the provisions of the bill, my argument was that a bill was passed called "Violence against Womans Act".

I cant blame you for running away from your OP, but nothing will hide the fact that you dishonestly used this bill (which you now claim you don't oppose) to promote an agenda which has nothing to do with the bill, and you made dishonest claims about the provisions of this bill (as well as many other dishonest claims) in order to support your misogynist agenda
 
I cant blame you for running away from your OP, but nothing will hide the fact that you dishonestly used this bill (which you now claim you don't oppose) to promote an agenda which has nothing to do with the bill, and you made dishonest claims about the provisions of this bill (as well as many other dishonest claims) in order to support your misogynist agenda

I guess this is where we will have to part, because I don't believe you have proven any of the above statements you made. And I don't believe I have made a dishonest remark in this whole thread.
 
I guess this is where we will have to part, because I don't believe you have proven any of the above statements you made. And I don't believe I have made a dishonest remark in this whole thread.

Yes, when you claimed that VAWA did not protect men, and I posted a quote from VAWA showing that it protected both men and women, that was an example of me not proving anything, and you making an honest remark :roll:
 
Yes, when you claimed that VAWA did not protect men, and I posted a quote from VAWA showing that it protected both men and women, that was an example of me not proving anything, and you making an honest remark :roll:

Can you point out where I said this?
 
I have attended public meetings with testimony from a wide variety of women who experienced domestic violence attesting to the value of the aid they received from anti-domestic violence groups. Domestic violence is something of a social disease and I see the value of awareness campaigns to discourage violence and encourage reporting incidents. As with the anti-tobacco smoking efforts these campaigns do change people's behavior, which reduces the social costs and the medical and legal costs from domestic violence.

Women, and others who are from an oppressed community, have a need to have confidence in the people that try to help them. Groups for specific demographics, such as immigrants, LGBTs and Native Americans, are more likely to be trusted by people needing assistance, since they may have issues with police and mainstream people based on recent history.
 
"immigrant survivors of domestic violence to seek legal status"

Umm, ya.

Another piece of bull**** crapped out by the demonazis and their neocon enablers.

Undocumented aliens facing violence risk deportation when they report crimes. That leads to a lot of violence and exploitation of wives, domestic servants and sex workers. There is a danger of false claims to gain legal residency, but there is a proven need to avoid punishing victims of violence, imprisonment and exploitation, if you care about these people's safety and well being.
 
Post #8.

You also claimed that all sexual harrasment classes portray men as rapists. I'm still waiting for you to post something to support this lie of yours

Read post 8 again, and please quote the line you are refering to. I never said the law did not protect men. I was making the point that the title of the law did nothing to raise awareness of the violence men suffer every day.
 
.....My question is, why do we need a law that criminalizes violence against females? What offenses does this legislation put forward that are not already addressed by current laws? Murder, Assault, Rape, Harassment and many other violations of ones rights are already addressed by current law.

To add to this, why is there a focus on violence against women? Men die 7 years earlier than women. Men make up over 90% of the workplace deaths.

Although men are more likely to be victims of violence, women are more likely to be victims of domestic violence. That is because domestic violence by men against women and children has been de facto almost legal in the past. That has been because of sexist attitudes that are just now heading towards obsolescence.

The issues of violence against men should be addressed also.
 
Read post 8 again, and please quote the line you are refering to. I never said the law did not protect men. I was making the point that the title of the law did nothing to raise awareness of the violence men suffer every day.

Why do you continue to post lies.

You most certainly did say the law (not the title) did nothing to raise awareness about the violence men face

How does it protect men equally when there is no raising of public awareness that men suffer, in large, even more from violence.

Even worse, you said that *after* I posted a quote from VAWA from a provision that shows that VAWA *does* promote effort to raise public awareness of an area where men are victims of violence (prison rape)

Again, from VAWA, from S.47-13
‘‘(17) developing, enlarging, or strengthening programs

addressing sexual assault against men, women, and youth in

correctional and detention settings;
 
Why do you continue to post lies.

You most certainly did say the law (not the title) did nothing to raise awareness about the violence men face

Kind of how like mortgage lenders raised awarness to home owners that variable percentage loans (usually written in fine print) would continually raise their mortgage payments to the point where they could not afford them anymore. Or credit card companies that raised awarness to consumers that after 3 months, their low interest credit card would become a high interest credit card (in fine print). Again, this does nothing to raise awareness of the violence men face. It does not address issues that effect men in large. Only includes them in issues that mainly effect women.

Saying that it does not bring to light issues that effect men is not the same as saying it does not protect men in the issues it does present.
 
Kind of how like mortgage lenders raised awarness to home owners that variable percentage loans (usually written in fine print) would continually raise their mortgage payments to the point where they could not afford them anymore. Or credit card companies that raised awarness to consumers that after 3 months, their low interest credit card would become a high interest credit card (in fine print). Again, this does nothing to raise awareness of the violence men face. It does not address issues that effect men in large. Only includes them in issues that mainly effect women.

Saying that it does not bring to light issues that effect men is not the same as saying it does not protect men in the issues it does present.

IOW, it's clear that you think any law that doesn't address an issue that mainly affects men is unfair

Thanks for making your misogyny obvious.
 
IOW, it's clear that you think any law that doesn't address an issue that mainly affects men is unfair

Thanks for making your misogyny obvious.

Where did I say this? You tried saying that this protects both sexes, but it does not. It protects women and includes men in issues effecting women. Which by in large, does little to protect men from the issues that effect men.
 
Violence against men has a wide range of causes and happens in a wide variety of situations-there are muggings, bar fights, drug related killings and gang related killings. Its hard to imagine a single campaign or streategy that could address all of those different situations.

Violence against women is overwhelmingly committed by romantic partners, families and acquaintances. It is largely driven by sexist attitudes and cultural norms. Raising awareness of the problem and addressing the underlying attitudes has already been proven to be effective.
 
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Violence against men has a wide range of causes and happens in a wide variety of situations-there are muggings, bar fights, muggings, drug related killings and gang related killings. Its hard to imagine a single campaign or streategy that could address all of those different situations.

Violence against women is overwhelmingly committed by romantic partners, families and acquaintances. It is largely driven by sexist attitudes and cultural norms. Raising awareness of the problem and addressing the underlying attitudes has already been proven to be effective.

Yes, and there are already sufficient laws out there that protect, and in some cases overprotect women from these issues. I have read thru bits and pieces of the legislation passed (it is 107 pages of grueling small print) and it does not seem to address anything really. Because much of it is already addressed by current laws.
 
Where did I say this? You tried saying that this protects both sexes, but it does not. It protects women and includes men in issues effecting women. Which by in large, does little to protect men from the issues that effect men.

I'll repost your quote where you criticize VAWA because:
It does not address issues that effect men in large. Only includes them in issues that mainly effect women.

You obviously have a problem when the govt does anything regarding women on issues that affect them more often than that issue affects men. That's why you whine about breast cancer reduction efforts, but are silent when it comes to the prevention of heart disease.

And to think some people think that there is no War on Women
 
Violence against men has a wide range of causes and happens in a wide variety of situations-there are muggings, bar fights, muggings, drug related killings and gang related killings. Its hard to imagine a single campaign or streategy that could address all of those different situations.

And according to capster, it's OK for the govt to address problems that affect men more often than it affects women. It's only wrong when the govt addresses problems that affect women more often than men
 
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