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Thread: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Yes, and there are already sufficient laws out there that protect, and in some cases overprotect women from these issues. I have read thru bits and pieces of the legislation passed (it is 107 pages of grueling small print) and it does not seem to address anything really. Because much of it is already addressed by current laws.
    Do I sense the slow realization that contrary to your deluded beliefs, VAWA does little in the way of criminalizing anything, and deals mostly with providing resources and support for various branches of law enforcement so that they can do a better job of enforcing the criminal laws which are already on the books?
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Do I sense the slow realization that contrary to your deluded beliefs, VAWA does little in the way of criminalizing anything, and deals mostly with providing resources and support for various branches of law enforcement so that they can do a better job of enforcing the criminal laws which are already on the books?
    Why do women need special enforcement if they are equal?

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Why do women need special enforcement if they are equal?
    Please quote from VAWA where it provides "special enforcement" for women
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'll repost your quote where you criticize VAWA because:
    You obviously have a problem when the govt does anything regarding women on issues that affect them more often than that issue affects men. That's why you whine about breast cancer reduction efforts, but are silent when it comes to the prevention of heart disease.
    You are the one that said it protects both sexes, and my point was that it only includes men.. and actually.. to be more accurate, after doing more reading, it only does not exclude men from protection. Much of what the bill talks about is funding and grants to organizations to support victims from these crimes. But most support groups are built and centered around women. How man battered men shelters do you know of? There is really no infrastructure or programs set up to deal directly and specifically with men who have the issues stated in the bill. Almost all are centered around the female victim. The bill states that many of its provisions will not discriminate based on sex, but only states that a particular organization can discriminate based on sex if that organization is not set up to deal with that particular sex. And as we are all aware, many organizations are centered around treating women, not men. So unless the government is saying it is going to set up organizations to deal with men in the same regard, I dont know how they expect to help men.

    And to think some people think that there is no War on Women
    No, there isent. There has been a war against men for the last 2 decades though. Just look at the most prominent feminist thinkers and see what they say about men. It is akin to what hitler said about the jews.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    You are the one that said it protects both sexes, and my point was that it only includes men.. and actually.. to be more accurate, after doing more reading, it only does not exclude men from protection. Much of what the bill talks about is funding and grants to organizations to support victims from these crimes. But most support groups are built and centered around women. How man battered men shelters do you know of? There is really no infrastructure or programs set up to deal directly and specifically with men who have the issues stated in the bill. Almost all are centered around the female victim. The bill states that many of its provisions will not discriminate based on sex, but only states that a particular organization can discriminate based on sex if that organization is not set up to deal with that particular sex. And as we are all aware, many organizations are centered around treating women, not men. So unless the government is saying it is going to set up organizations to deal with men in the same regard, I dont know how they expect to help men.



    No, there isent. There has been a war against men for the last 2 decades though. Just look at the most prominent feminist thinkers and see what they say about men. It is akin to what hitler said about the jews.
    It does protect both sexes. And "does not exclude men" means it includes men, just as I said.

    WRT to funding orgs, there's nothing stopping anyone from creating a mens' shelter, and under VAWA they're just as eligible for funding under VAWA. IOW, there's nothing unfair about it.

    And there are programs set up to deal directly and specifically with men. I even mentioned it earlier: Prison rape.

    Yes, there are more sexual assault programs directed towards women, but that's because there are more female victims. Complaining about this is like women complaining because the govt doesn't support any organizations to help women with with prostate cancer.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    I love how we have federal laws against this stuff.

    Also, just why do we need services besides punishing the crimes?
    Last edited by Henrin; 03-05-13 at 12:05 AM.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It does protect both sexes. And "does not exclude men" means it includes men, just as I said.

    WRT to funding orgs, there's nothing stopping anyone from creating a mens' shelter, and under VAWA they're just as eligible for funding under VAWA. IOW, there's nothing unfair about it.

    And there are programs set up to deal directly and specifically with men. I even mentioned it earlier: Prison rape.

    Yes, there are more sexual assault programs directed towards women, but that's because there are more female victims. Complaining about this is like women complaining because the govt doesn't support any organizations to help women with with prostate cancer.

    And what happens when men use the resources that are suppose to protect men and women equally. This is what happens.

    GlennSacks.com Blog Archive
    Of the abused men who called domestic violence hotlines, 64% were told that they “only helped women.”
    In 32% of the cases, the abused men were referred to batterers’ programs. Another 25% were given a phone number to call that turned out to be a batterers’ program.
    Overall, only 8% of the men who called hotlines classified them as “very helpful,” whereas 69% found them to be “not at all helpful.”
    Sixteen percent said the people at the hot line “dismissed or made fun of them.” One abused man said:

    They laughed at me and told me I must have done something to deserve it if it happened at all.

    Another said:

    They asked how much I weighed and how much she weighed and then hung up on me…I was told by this agency that I was full of BS.
    Twelve percent of the hotlines accused the man of being the batterer or responsible for the abuse. One abused man said:

    They told me women don’t commit domestic violence — it must have been my fault.

    Another said:

    They accused me of trying to hide my “abuse” of her by claiming to be a victim, and they said that I was nothing more than a wimp.
    Another said:

    They didn’t really listen to what I said. They assumed that all abusers are men and said that I must accept that I was the abuser. They ridiculed me for not leaving my wife, ignoring the issues about what I would need to do to protect my six children and care for them.
    I posed as a male victim of domestic violence and called every domestic violence shelter in all of Los Angeles and San Diego counties. Not a single one would accept me or offer assistance, with the exception of Valley Oasis. Most flatly refused any assistance at all, but a couple did offer me space in a homeless shelter. When I asked, “Am I supposed to take my children to a homeless shelter?”, they replied, “That’s all we can do.”
    So while all this grant money is going to suposibly support domestic violence and sexual assault on men and women equally, men are being denied services based on their sex.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    No, there isent. There has been a war against men for the last 2 decades though. Just look at the most prominent feminist thinkers and see what they say about men. It is akin to what hitler said about the jews.
    I don't know about the Hitler comparison, but feminist hating on men is about as old as the movement itself.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    And this is the heart of the issue right here. This is how society views battered men....

    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    I agree that there are problems with how men are treated in certain situations. I think it has more to do with men being expected to be either brave, but expendable warriors, hard workers ripe for exploitation or disposible criminal thugs. It is a classist, sexist notion that predates feminism.

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