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Thread: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    So really the only problem the Op actually has it it was named something catchy? So we should oppose good legislation with lots of support because someone named it something you don't like? It sounds more to me like someone is trying to find some reason to oppose it because they want to pretend there is some agenda behind it despite having never actually read the bill. So I guess the real question here is whether or not an opinion based on the contents of the bill is more powerful than an opinion based on propaganda and a name. I would have to say that since the republicans actually did something bipartisan and committed the sin of agreeing with obama on something that the contents of the bill mean a little more than the lie that it is somehow sexist created by a bunch of people who only read the title of the bill.

    You must be really disturbed by megan's law. to think that child molestation of people named megan was so terrible they had to have an entire law and database set up across the country to fight against people who sexually assault people named megan. Or maybe not. maybe they just pick titles that the general public can easily remember and associate with a set of laws.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    So they passed the "Pandering to Women" Act. Big whoop.

    SSDD.

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    So really the only problem the Op actually has it it was named something catchy? So we should oppose good legislation with lots of support because someone named it something you don't like? It sounds more to me like someone is trying to find some reason to oppose it because they want to pretend there is some agenda behind it despite having never actually read the bill. So I guess the real question here is whether or not an opinion based on the contents of the bill is more powerful than an opinion based on propaganda and a name. I would have to say that since the republicans actually did something bipartisan and committed the sin of agreeing with obama on something that the contents of the bill mean a little more than the lie that it is somehow sexist created by a bunch of people who only read the title of the bill.
    So what your saying is, that if a bill came out titled "Violence against Whites Act", you would have no problem with it if the content of the bill could be applied to everyone?

    You must be really disturbed by megan's law. to think that child molestation of people named megan was so terrible they had to have an entire law and database set up across the country to fight against people who sexually assault people named megan. Or maybe not. maybe they just pick titles that the general public can easily remember and associate with a set of laws.
    Well, I think it is a bit disturbing that they choose to focus on a female that was molested. As we know, both males and females are molested at equal rates. However, the law itself highlights child molestation which is all inclusive. When we talk about Megan, we know we are really talking about all children. But when we talk about Womens Violence, we know we are only talking about women because the title generalizes who the legislation is being targeted twords. But a law specifically targeted at all children named Megan, would be as rediculous as a law only targeted at women only.
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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Would you have an issue with a law if it was titled "Violence against Whites Act", or "Violence against Men's act". I guarantee that if the title had been one of those two, there would definitely be people calling it racist or misogynist weather or not it addressed all races or all sexes. And they would be right, because it would only bring to light the violence committed on those specific groups of people.
    Your need to base your argument on fictions reveals the weakness of your argument

    Does it? Then where is the funding to support it? What groups can you think of that advocate for men? Oh, I know one.. And guess what happened when they tried to hold a meeting. This happened:

    Now if this were to happen outside a conference for womens rights, do you think we would not know about it? Do you think we would allow it to happen? Would it ever happen?
    Since men are more affected by crime and violence than women are, the funding for the police is primarily used to help men. No one makes a fuss about it because everyone is used to resources being expended on men.


    Like what?
    Like health care for injured soldiers, crime, guns, and a host of other issues

    So lets look at this a bit closer and actually see what your saying here means. It means, that if our society were still rooted in the 1930's and there was a large constituent that believed womens place was at home and not in the workplace, that congress should ignore that women want a place in the workplace? Pass legislation that prevents women from entering the workplace.... If you want to say that congress should listen to lobbies that ask us to stick to the societal norm, then we would stagnate as a country.
    Your need to resort to fictions is the result of an argument that can't be supported by reality



    There are men that are. I am one of them. But society lambasts us for speaking up. The example of the protesters standing outside the conference room calling everyone that tried to enter rapists is an example of what I am talking about.
    Awwww. Did society hurt your feeling.



    Is it only men's responsibility to stick up for men? It's a societal issue. When women complain that men are running away from responsibility but give them no incentive to be responsible that is when you have the situation we are in. Even worse, when you prevent them from trying to be responsible by blocking them from speaking up about their own rights as fathers and as human beings.
    You're getting hysterical. "Women" don't complain about men. Some women do. So do some men.

    Your post is beginning to reek of misogyny

    Again, then why was it called Violence Against Women Act? You still are dodging the question.
    Asked and answered


    No, it isn't. And I won't be diverted from my main argument by arguing details that frankly, don't really matter in the overall point of my argument.
    You certainly did make a point of it, but I can't blame you from running away from your absurd claim. If only you'd do the same for the rest of your nonsense


    Have you ever been to a sexual harassment class? It does not seem like it based on what you say. I would like to know exactly what is so rediculous about my claim. Just calling it rediculous is not enough, you actually have to argue why it is. Then I can address your points.
    I see you still can't corroborate your claim about sexual harrassment classes, so instead, you're going to whine and tell lies about me.



    Could you provide an example? I have.
    Aileen Wuornos


    Your not going to escape my question, I will keep asking it until I get an answer. Then why was it called "Violence against Women Act'?
    Asked and answered

    I guess by this answer, I could understand why you have such a problem with the question. It's a simple question that you just don't have a good answer for. Your having to jump around like someone is throwing firecrackers at your feet to answer it, well then, maybe you should examine what is being questioned instead of trying to dance around it.
    Asked and answered



    What information do you dispute? I thought it was all common knowledge but I will humor you if I need to for a little bit at least until I simply get tired of pointing out the obvious.
    To start, please post something to corroborate your claims that all sexual harrassment classes "objectify men as villains" and that "men have been vilified in the media and by the government as rapists."
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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    But when we talk about Womens Violence, we know we are only talking about women
    Umm, wrong

    *We* know that VAWA refers to sexual violence.

    I can't say what you know. So far, nothing you've said makes any sense
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    I'm not a fan of VAWA for a few reasons.

    #1... it's not necessary..... domestic violence is illegal in all 50 states and the DofC.. and these cases are still prosecuted by the States.
    Federal interferences are wholly unnecessary.

    #2 this act requires the complete stripping of a citizens RTKBA if he/she is convicted of a .... misdemeanor.
    this is the only misdemeanor that results , automatically, in a person losing their RTkBA for life. (unless you are able to expunge your record of the conviction)
    on a related note... this rights denial relies upon a conviction of a state law... laws that vary from state to state

    #3 the new expansion was ill thought out and does not adequately address matters of jurisdiction and rights protections between Indian reservations and the state they are in.
    under this bill it is feasible a non-indian can be prosecuted and convicted by an indian authority... and the state authority.
    the bill offers no protections for double jeopardy, as double jeopardy laws are not applicable.
    simply put, a person can be legally tried and convicted twice for the same crime.


    to address these problem i would suggest the following:
    requiring the denial of 2nd amendment rights only upon conviction of felony domestic violence ....a misdemeanor should simply not carry a lifetime rights denial.
    publishing standards of the DV laws that this denial would apply to , thus mitigating the effects of different law in each states( they do vary widely)....

    take the time to reconcile between Indian tribes and states, ensuring all rights of the accused are protected, including double jeopardy, indictment by grand jury, access to counsel, etc.
    I understand Congress is trying to get votes from certain demographics, but that is not an excuse to pass ill-thought out law.


    ultimately, this act is unnecessary... but it's a vehicle to pander for votes (based on good intentions).... so it will not go anywhere.
    I hope they would make some changes to it, but there is no incentive to pass good law, so that will not happen either.



    on a personal note, i got caught up in a DV wrap.... for beating my brother-in-law up... whom did not live or work with me.
    the Nevada statute is very broad... far too broad.
    anyways, it took quite a bit of money , time, and effort, to get my record cleaned up...

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Umm, wrong

    *We* know that VAWA refers to sexual violence.

    I can't say what you know. So far, nothing you've said makes any sense
    no, the violence does not have to be sexual in nature.

    in Nevada,per statute.. the violence can be sexual, physical, or psychological.

    in practice, no violence has to occur at all to get a DV conviction....i've seen it happen.( dude was convicted of DV for hanging the home phone up while his wife was trying to call her mother)

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Your need to base your argument on fictions reveals the weakness of your argument

    Since men are more affected by crime and violence than women are, the funding for the police is primarily used to help men. No one makes a fuss about it because everyone is used to resources being expended on men.




    Like health care for injured soldiers, crime, guns, and a host of other issues



    Your need to resort to fictions is the result of an argument that can't be supported by reality





    Awwww. Did society hurt your feeling.





    You're getting hysterical. "Women" don't complain about men. Some women do. So do some men.

    Your post is beginning to reek of misogyny



    Asked and answered




    You certainly did make a point of it, but I can't blame you from running away from your absurd claim. If only you'd do the same for the rest of your nonsense




    I see you still can't corroborate your claim about sexual harrassment classes, so instead, you're going to whine and tell lies about me.





    Aileen Wuornos




    Asked and answered



    Asked and answered





    To start, please post something to corroborate your claims that all sexual harrassment classes "objectify men as villains" and that "men have been vilified in the media and by the government as rapists."

    You whole argument here is falling apart. It would be so easy for me to pick it apart, but I feel doing so is really just a waste of my time and energy. Either way, the statistics don't lie. We can either address the problems now, or we will be dealing with them when we absolutely have to, which will be, I fear, at the worst possible time and it will be to late to reconcile the damage.

    Men and boys are increasingly being marginalized in today's society. This is why boys are growing up with ADHD and being drugged up by doctors. Because schools no longer teach to boys. This is why graduation rates from high school for boys lags behind girls. This is why the rate at which boys attend college is slipping in comparission to girls. This is why boys who grow up without fathers, or without functional families are out on the streets in gangs and make up the vast majority of those in prison. This is why the majority of those who have become homeless in the past decade have been men due to the economic downturn that effected vastly more men then women. This is why, 50 years ago men and women's life expectancy was 1 year apart, and now it is 7 years apart. This is why men are committing suicide on a much larger scale than women. Why? Because no one cares about men. We have always been the disposable sex. At least 50 years ago we were socially rewarded for it, but now, it goes ignored. 50 years ago, it was also functional and had a purpose where as now, with technology it is less the case. Men are slowly being alienated by society as a whole. Men need help!!! Men need to speak up and say they need help! But society has to create the environment that makes men feel safe about expressing these things. Instead of an environment that is hostile to their concerns and tells them that your a man, stop complaining! The same compassion that went into the womens rights movement (notice I did not say the feminist movement because I think they are entirely different), needs to go into a Mens Movement to help men move into the new social roles. And women need to be more supportive of men wanting to move into traditionally female roles.

    And passing legislation that continually villifies males is not going to get that done. It only pushes males further out to the edges of society where they will continue to suffer.
    Last edited by Capster78; 03-04-13 at 12:36 AM.
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  9. #19
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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    You whole argument here is falling apart. It would be so easy for me to pick it apart, but I feel doing so is really just a waste of my time and energy.
    I accept your surrender

    Either way, the statistics don't lie. We can either address the problems now, or we will be dealing with them when we absolutely have to, which will be, I fear, at the worst possible time and it will be to late to reconcile the damage.
    Statistics?

    You've posted no statistics

    Men and boys are increasingly being marginalized in today's society. This is why boys are growing up with ADHD and being drugged up by doctors. Because schools no longer teach to boys. This is why graduation rates from high school for boys lags behind girls. This is why the rate at which boys attend college is slipping in comparission to girls. This is why boys who grow up without fathers, or without functional families are out on the streets in gangs and make up the vast majority of those in prison. This is why the majority of those who have become homeless in the past decade have been men due to the economic downturn that effected vastly more men then women. This is why, 50 years ago men and women's life expectancy was 1 year apart, and now it is 7 years apart. This is why men are committing suicide on a much larger scale than women. Why? Because no one cares about men. We have always been the disposable sex. At least 50 years ago we were socially rewarded for it, but now, it goes ignored. 50 years ago, it was also functional and had a purpose where as now, with technology it is less the case. Men are slowly being alienated by society as a whole. Men need help!!! Men need to speak up and say they need help! But society has to create the environment that makes men feel safe about expressing these things. Instead of an environment that is hostile to their concerns and tells them that your a man, stop complaining! The same compassion that went into the womens rights movement (notice I did not say the feminist movement because I think they are entirely different), needs to go into a Mens Movement to help men move into the new social roles. And women need to be more supportive of men wanting to move into traditionally female roles.
    The misogyny of your argument has nothing to do with VAWA. It's obvious that your arguments have little to do with VAWA, and more with the fear that men will no longer be priviliged.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: House passes Violence Against Women Act after GOP version defeated.

    /r/mensrights is leaking.

    (don't go there it's the third most hateful place on the internet)
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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