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Thread: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Dude YOU brought the firearm thing into this, don't complain about me using it back.

    NOW your true opinion comes out. You see assistance as rewarding failure. Not a helping hand, even though, heaven forbid you should ever need it yourself.

    Making them jump through hoops, again very telling, how about a realistic program to educate and elevate, but then again if we did that they just might compete with you or yours for those jobs that pay well enough to not need assistance.

    Some may never rise up out of poverty, but do you have any idea what fraction of the programs deal with them? Many detractors lump the free lunch family in with the whole enchilada family.
    OK using YOUR criteria, alone, yet us examine the "welfare" (in all of its many forms) situation. What, other than economic failure, is used as a qualification for "welfare" benefits? Are not all of us offered a free K-12 public education? I propose denying all public assistance to those lacking a HS education, just as we willfully deny that public assistance to those that do not have dependent children. Simply because I do not make an income over the federal poverty line, I am not "entitled" to welfare (or even Medicaid) unless I have dependent children. We now have a system that encourages having children to "qualify" for welfare, yet do not require taking advantage of the free public education offered; currently 42% of those on welfare lack a HS education, while 90% are single mothers.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    White people are just as much into welfare income and free welfare supplemental income.
    Of course. I only brought it up because it happens to be something I have personal experience with.

    I spent four years assigned to a Transportation unit in Charleston that was roughly 80% African American. Roughly 9 out of 10 of the young women there were single mothers and on welfare (in addition to their military benefits).

    All of them sported expensive new phones. They would also sit around talking about "baby daddies" and exchanging food stamps for sexy shoes and club clothing as if it were the most normal thing in the world.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-01-13 at 01:26 PM.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Welfare costs have done nothing but balloon for the last 50 years and are growing larger every day. Welfare has even become a staple of everyday lifestyle for many minority groups precisely because it initially has a much higher cost to benefit ratio than gainful employment.

    The Unsustainable Growth of Welfare

    Given the already massively unsustainable nature of our national debt, it would seem to be a truism that major reform is necessary. Spending on welfare is one of the areas most in need of such fundamental restructuring.

    Drug testing would make an excellent first step.
    I'm not sure why minority groups are singled out. Poverty rates for minority groups pretty much mirror trends by whites. At a higher level but that's an intergenerational poverty problem.

    I also don't agree with your idea that spending to alleviate poverty is the problem. To me it's a problem but not the problem. The problem in my view is that higher wage jobs have been replaced by lower wage jobs. I'm not sure how pulling the rug under individuals will do anything beyond make poverty a more painful experience.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK using YOUR criteria, alone, yet us examine the "welfare" (in all of its many forms) situation. What, other than economic failure, is used as a qualification for "welfare" benefits? Are not all of us offered a free K-12 public education? I propose denying all public assistance to those lacking a HS education, just as we willfully deny that public assistance to those that do not have dependent children. Simply because I do not make an income over the federal poverty line, I am not "entitled" to welfare (or even Medicaid) unless I have dependent children. We now have a system that encourages having children to "qualify" for welfare, yet do not require taking advantage of the free public education offered; currently 42% of those on welfare lack a HS education, while 90% are single mothers.
    Again you use a very self centered stance on this... because YOU can't get assistance you have a complaint. I can't get the same as you, but I don't begrudge others getting help.

    When you say 'welfare' and the 92% you don't mean ALL forms, you mean the full monty. Millions of working families get food stamps, help in school lunches and if ya REALLY want to whine about what 'they' get try the tax gift they get for kids, and that is above the regular tax credit, it is a gift for having kids!

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Curious as to why drug (ab)use is an approved no-no for gun ownership, and for parole/probation (even for non-drug related crimes) yet just peachy for getting welfare cash. While drug/alcohol addiction/abuse is not a major cause of poverty it certainly hinders one's chances of getting out of it. Attempts to bar any restrictions to getting "automatic" public assistance are not wise public policy. I would insist upon a HS education, the presentation of a personal improvement plan and requiring strict adherence to that plan. I have no real objection to an ocassional helping hand, but would prefer it to be via privately funded charity, but see no reason for all carrot and no stick. We have had a "war on poverty" since the 1960s, and have spent trillions fighting it, yet are stuck with 15% of the US population still so classified. To assert that the current wefare (in all of its many forms) programs are working simply defies common sense.
    I thought libertarians were for legalization of drugs?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I thought libertarians were for legalization of drugs?
    We are. Are you trying to make a point?

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    We are. Are you trying to make a point?
    The hypocrisy of a libertarian calling for drug testing.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And I agree with this decision. There is no evidence to suggest that, because somebody is poor, he or she is automatically a drug addict, anymore than, if someone were a banker, he or she is automatically a crook. But, seriously, the law was based on stereotyping, and I believe that SCOTUS will uphold the ruling.

    Article is here.
    But bankers aren't on welfare.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The hypocrisy of a libertarian calling for drug testing.
    I'm all for legalization of prime rib and lobster too. I don't want my tax money going there either.

    Nice strawman. Try again, perhaps?

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And I agree with this decision. There is no evidence to suggest that, because somebody is poor, he or she is automatically a drug addict, anymore than, if someone were a banker, he or she is automatically a crook. But, seriously, the law was based on stereotyping, and I believe that SCOTUS will uphold the ruling.

    Article is here.
    you're probably 100 percent correct. But money that is force-ably being taken from taxpayers to give to others with no work or anything else required, peeing in a cup seems very reasonable to obtain free money.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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