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Thread: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

  1. #51
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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And I agree with this decision. There is no evidence to suggest that, because somebody is poor, he or she is automatically a drug addict, anymore than, if someone were a banker, he or she is automatically a crook. But, seriously, the law was based on stereotyping, and I believe that SCOTUS will uphold the ruling.
    I'm mostly against it because it cannot be uniformly enforced. A lot of people on welfare are raging alcoholics. They end up at the liquor store every time they collect their cheques. Problem is there is no pee test for alcohol, or tobacco. Even some illegal drugs are not testable.

    So really you are just going to be targetting the hard addicts, and those people need medical help anyway, not more punishments.

    I've also read that in other countries where drug testing for welfare recipients happens, there is no appreciable money-saving impact on the welfare system. In fact, the testing system usually wastes more money than it saves.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not in Texas, they can't. When I was on probation for my DWI, I saw lots of dumbasses get their probation revoked and sent to jail becuase they tried to beat the system. Yes, there are lots of things out there you can use to try to beat a piss test, but they don't work. The best ones make you piss clear, and that will automatically get you in trouble, because the authorities know that, if there is NOTHING in your piss, not even the normal stuff, then you have used one of those products.
    Since I am actually in college and spent a good semester actually living with stoners, I would be more then happy to tell you there are plenty of ways to pass a piss test ahead of time without using any aforementioned products. One of the stoners was happy to inform me that if they know they have a drug test coming in a week, they simply go to the sauna every day and drink 1-2 gallons of water daily at which point they will likely pass with flying colors.

    So I wouldn't be surprised if a significant amount of people on welfare were still using drugs; but non-randomized drug tests are simply not the way to go about it. And since randomized drug tests are even more expensive, then I think we need a better system. How about we just put welfare cash on a non-reusable debit card that cannot be converted to cash or withdraw cash?

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Not in Texas, they can't. When I was on probation for my DWI, I saw lots of dumbasses get their probation revoked and sent to jail becuase they tried to beat the system. Yes, there are lots of things out there you can use to try to beat a piss test, but they don't work. The best ones make you piss clear, and that will automatically get you in trouble, because the authorities know that, if there is NOTHING in your piss, not even the normal stuff, then you have used one of those products.
    Don't bet on it. I know several people here in Texas who, throughout the years, have beaten a drug pee test. I don't think you can beat follicle test or a blood test, but a pee test is not too difficult to fool.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Pretty big assumption. My piss comes out clear quite often because I ALWAYS walk around with a bottled water with me. I bet I drink a gallon of water a day.

    If I put down 2 glasses, poured stale Sprite into one and peed into the other, I'd bet you money that you couldn't tell the difference.
    I'll bet a laboratory can tell you which is which. BTW, just drinking a lot of water will not fool these tests for one minute.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Absolutely ridiculous "Judicial Activist" logic at its worst. How on Earth does it count as "unreasonable search and seizure" to require that those who receive federal aid for poverty not be under the influence of substances that might adversely affect their judgement and ability to wisely spend the funds they receive? The Government is under absolutely no constitutional obligation to provide financial aid to the poor in the first place.

    It is a voluntary program that participants sign on to in exchange for handouts. As far as I'm concerned, the state should have the "right" to refuse service to whomever it damn well pleases, because the recipients have no real "right" to the handouts the state provides.

    As a matter of fact, it more or less already does. There is a reason why one must be under a certain income level to even be eligible for welfare in the first place, after all.

    I could never be a lawyer. Bull**** semantics and sophistry have a tendency to simply piss me off.
    After reading this BS posting, I am glad people like you are in the minority.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    In return for what?
    Congressmen are on the public role. In fact, not only are these politicians living off the taxpayer, they are in a position to create laws that affect all of us. Surely these people, of all people, should take a drug test to show their employer, us, that they are of sound mind.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    I'll bet a laboratory can tell you which is which. BTW, just drinking a lot of water will not fool these tests for one minute.
    He wasn't talking about a lab. He was saying that an untrained person looking with a naked eye was determining pass/fail by color.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    BTW, just drinking a lot of water will not fool these tests for one minute.
    Pissing water results in an inclusive test. But there are tons of urine cleansing kits for purchase that remove any traces of the substances being screened without causing any suspicion.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You seem to lack the key understanding of just what probable cause actually means.

    Withholding welfare because someone is refusing to look for a job relies on "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true". So if a person, in 3 years during a healthy economy has not found a job in a major city, it can be considered probable cause specially if they show no job applications filled out or even have a reference number that can be called to ask whether or not they've applied for a job.

    However, if the same person living in the boonies, has no means to move and hasn't found a job in said boonies - there is no probable cause available to suggest they haven't been looking for a job.

    As it stands. there is no statistical probability to justify drug tests on welfare recipients. There isn't a huge drove of welfare recipients using their money to buy drugs. Far more likely to spend the money on cigarrettes or alcohol which are perfectly legal. So I ask, what suspicions & circumstances (i.e. probably cause) can you have for saying that a person who is on welfare is also doing drugs?

    To simplify my post: If probable cause means that there needs to be a suspicion backed by some form of evidence, what form of evidence would you use to justify drug tests on all welfare recipients? This is specially considering that nowhere near the majority are out doing drugs.
    Absolute nonsense.

    First off, the obligation to look for work while recieving unemployment benefits is a weekly requirement in my state, not something that they wait "3 years" to enforce. You pulled that analogy completely out of your ass.

    Secondly, who on earth died and left you with the authority to deterimine what is and is not probable cause? Again, if the state has "probable cause" to drug test its employees, it absolutely has probable cause to drug test welfare recipients.

    Quite frankly, the poor and unemployed are far more likely to use and be addicted to illegal substances than those who are actively employed with the Federal Government in the first place. That is more or less all the "probable cause" one should really need. I have brought this example up time and again for a reason. Unsurprisingly, you continue to completely ignore it because the precedent it sets completely destroys your argument.

    I dare you to name one logically and legally consistent reason why the state should have the right to withhold employment and pay from employees and military service members who fail drug screenings, but not welfare reipients. The simple fact of the matter is that you can't, because no such reason exists. The distinction is purely arbitrary and based exclusively off of emotionally based judicial moralism, not actual legal precedent or constitutional law.

    i.e. "We can't withhold welfare from drug users, because people might starve in the streets!"

    Liberal courts actually affirm the stereotype that minorities and those living below the poverty line are habitual drug users by showing such an overt measure of paranoia where laws such as this are concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texmex View Post
    After reading this BS posting, I am glad people like you are in the minority.
    Yes, I am a member of a minority which seems to only grow smaller with every passing day. We like to be referred to as the "clinically sane."

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    God forbid the junkies and potheads not get their government handouts!
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-01-13 at 11:56 AM.

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    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Many jobs require drug testing, are people on welfare somehow better than the rest of us working stiffs?

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