Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 175

Thread: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

  1. #31
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,018

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, the state should have the "right" to refuse service to whomever it damn well pleases,
    What about blacks and women? If the government doesn't want to offer blacks and women the service it provides by issuing drivers licenses (which is not a right), should it be allowed?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #32
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What about blacks and women? If the government doesn't want to offer blacks and women the service it provides by issuing drivers licenses (which is not a right), should it be allowed?
    If they had probable cause (which they don't), they would certainly have the right.

    Technically, welfare already discriminates against those of the rich and middle income tax brackets, and driver's licenses discriminate against the elderly and sightless.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-01-13 at 01:19 AM.

  3. #33
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,018

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    If they had probable cause (which they don't),
    What probable cause do you have to state that someone who is on welfare is using it for drugs?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  4. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    What probable cause do you have to state that someone who is on welfare is using it for drugs?
    Potential waste of public funds, for one. Frankly, if you're not doing drugs, you shouldn't have anything to fear in the first place.

    Compliance with drug policy is mandatory for government employees and military service members. There is absolutely no reason why it should not also be mandatory for welfare recipients.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-01-13 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #35
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    The glee with which some people will sacrifice their rights (privacy in this case) frightens me. The eagerness to deny them to others is even worse.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  6. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    The glee with which some people will sacrifice their rights (privacy in this case) frightens me. The eagerness to deny them to others is even worse.
    Government handouts are not a "right." Frankly, that whole attitude is a major part of the problem here.

    If anything, welfare should be treated as a contract between government and the recipient. If the recipient fails to live up to the requirements government sets for that contract, it should be terminated like any other.

    Unemployment is already run this way in South Carolina. A requirement of enrollment is that you fill out at least 5 job applications each week.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 03-01-13 at 01:36 AM.

  7. #37
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,018

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Potential waste of public funds, for one.
    That's not probable cause. Much in the same way that black people being more likely to be involved in drive-bys is not probably cause to deny them a driver's license.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #38
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    That's not probable cause. Much in the same way that black people being more likely to be involved in drive-bys is not probably cause to deny them a driver's license.
    Sure it is. If the state can withhold unemployment benefits if one refuses to look for a job, it can certainly require drug testing before providing certain benefits as well.

    Enlighten me. Why should the government need an exemplarly amount of probable cause to require drug testing for welfare recipients, but not for government employees or military service members? There is absolutely no logical or legal reason why the one should be acceptable but not the other.

  9. #39
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    42,018

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Sure it is. If the state can withhold unemployment benefits if one refuses to look for a job,
    You seem to lack the key understanding of just what probable cause actually means.

    Withholding welfare because someone is refusing to look for a job relies on "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true". So if a person, in 3 years during a healthy economy has not found a job in a major city, it can be considered probable cause specially if they show no job applications filled out or even have a reference number that can be called to ask whether or not they've applied for a job.

    However, if the same person living in the boonies, has no means to move and hasn't found a job in said boonies - there is no probable cause available to suggest they haven't been looking for a job.

    As it stands. there is no statistical probability to justify drug tests on welfare recipients. There isn't a huge drove of welfare recipients using their money to buy drugs. Far more likely to spend the money on cigarrettes or alcohol which are perfectly legal. So I ask, what suspicions & circumstances (i.e. probably cause) can you have for saying that a person who is on welfare is also doing drugs?

    To simplify my post: If probable cause means that there needs to be a suspicion backed by some form of evidence, what form of evidence would you use to justify drug tests on all welfare recipients? This is specially considering that nowhere near the majority are out doing drugs.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 03-01-13 at 03:03 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  10. #40
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The anals of history
    Last Seen
    07-25-15 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Florida Welfare Drug Testing Law Gets No Reprieve From Appeals Court

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And I agree with this decision. There is no evidence to suggest that, because somebody is poor, he or she is automatically a drug addict, anymore than, if someone were a banker, he or she is automatically a crook. But, seriously, the law was based on stereotyping, and I believe that SCOTUS will uphold the ruling.

    Article is here.
    Actually, there is evidence to suggest that lower-income people are more likely to do drugs.

    However, that isn't even the point, so let's get it straight. It's not about who is more or less "likely" to do drugs. The issue is one of principle: there is no such thing as free money without any strings attached.

    If you want other taxpayers to give you money, the least you can do for it is to prove that you're a good citizen by peeing in a cup.

Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •