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Thread: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle Probl

  1. #21
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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A cap-and-trade approach was effective in reducing SO2 emissions and largely eliminating North America's acid rain problem. This time around, one is dealing with a global scale issue. Without broad participation by the nations with the highest CO2 emissions, such an approach won't have the same level of effectiveness as the earlier program which dealt with a regional problem. China, for example, is not going to participate in a program that caps its CO2 emissions anytime soon. However, China does face a growing air pollution problem, highlighted by some recent spectacular outbreaks of smog in January, that is creating pressure for China to combat its growing air pollution problem.

    Now, if one believes there is no link between CO2 and climate change, then one can freely dismiss policy options aimed at reducing CO2 emissions. However, most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are responsible for pushing annual emissions above annual absorption leading to the growing atmospheric share of CO2. Most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic factors (led by CO2) has created an energy imbalance that is responsible for most of the observed warming that has occurred since the mid-20th century.

    Policy makers, of course, must balance many considerations. They do not make policy exclusively on economic terms or scientific terms. The 2009 stimulus package achieved less bang-for-the-buck because it included low multiplier items e.g., temporary tax breaks. That was done for political reasons (to build majority support) and social reasons (to cushion workers from some of the pain) at the trade-off of economic interests (substituting low multiplier items for high multiplier ones). The same will be involved in climate change policy. Energy supply realities (one can't readily and immediately replace fossil fuels, much less in a cost-effective fashion), economic ones (balancing growth with restraint on CO2 emissions), social ones (trying to avoid a situation analagous to a regressive tax), etc. Hence, the policy path will likely prove far slower than some of the scientists involved in climate change research might prefer based on today's scientific understanding.
    China is able to allow high pollution levels because they (the Chinese government) impose a higher level of fear and control on their populace. Our government looks to do the same. Thing is, they did it too soon. One or two generations later and people like Jaqwagon would be their elders and they would be so misinformed and complacent you could tell them used socks taste like steak and they'd believe it. The Chinese government doesn't care about pollution, they are making a profit and their citizens can't stop them. Funny that capitalism is touted here as uncaring and greedy when the Chinese government does what they do.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P


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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Ugh... Is it bad that you're actually making me wish I was back on a majority Liberal forum? Even with the constant abuse, they at least tend to know how to argue in a somewhat competent fashion.
    Your fixation on me is noted.

    In any case, no one's "denied" anything. While I do feel that the "threat" posed by Global Warming tends to be massively overstated, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of geology knows that global temperatures have been gradually rising over the last several centuries.
    And you claim it's massively overstated because . . . You deny the science.

    Thanks for playing.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Get a clue dude...everybody knows Marxists hide in the closet, it's carriers of the gay disease that hide under beds.
    My mistake. It's hard to keep up with tea party obsessions. They are so varied and exquisite.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Jesus. You are so blinded by partisanship and false assumptions you can't even make an objective post. How do you know what conservatives would oppose if you don't even know what the proposals are? YOU CAN'T. So many assumptions you make about conservatives are so far off base that it is clear that what others really think can't even be seen from atop your pillar of self delusion. And in case you haven't figured it out yet, man made global warming is not "science". Scientific fact can be proven and duplicated. MMGW is a theory, one predicated on false assumptions reliant on mouth breathing emotional plebes to move forward at a profit for those who tout it. Look at Al Gore. He's made a pretty good living off of it while personally living by none of the standards he and you would impose on others.

    Classic liberal strategy:

    Create a problem
    Insist something be done
    Assume the government must be the entity to do it
    Create a "solution" that may have to bearing on reality or fact
    Denigrate anyone who has a different perspective
    Profit
    It's a conspiracy!

    Man, conservatives are tiresome.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Hmmm, who here really, truly, believes the poll takers didn't know the result of the poll BEFORE they took it? I've got a bridge you might be interested in if so.

    And don't you all know, we're done with dealing with pollution, it's CO2 we're concerned with now. It allows the industries to frack and pollute all they want, as long as they keep their CO2 profile looking good for the dog and pony show. If you've ever been to LA in the summer decades ago and more recently you'd see it's not gotten better, but thanks to California's CO2 standards they do emit less CO2. Oh boy, problem being solved, yes indeed.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Hmmm, who here really, truly, believes the poll takers didn't know the result of the poll BEFORE they took it? I've got a bridge you might be interested in if so.

    And don't you all know, we're done with dealing with pollution, it's CO2 we're concerned with now. It allows the industries to frack and pollute all they want, as long as they keep their CO2 profile looking good for the dog and pony show. If you've ever been to LA in the summer decades ago and more recently you'd see it's not gotten better, but thanks to California's CO2 standards they do emit less CO2. Oh boy, problem being solved, yes indeed.
    IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

    I think in the future this is the only phrase conservatives will ever say. It represents the entirety of the ideological and semantic system, and it's the only "argument" they can make in light of the facts that totally debunk their claims.

    Meanwhile science marches forward without them.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    it's a conspiracy!
    a conspirameme!

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Silly. Of course politicians commission polls to highlight their causes. If the POTUS were a republican you'd have been the first to point that out.

    Science may be marching forward, but it's doing so without any "help" from you or the rest of the cult.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Fair enough. However, it should be pointed out that emission's trading has been shown to be quite ineffective in several nations.


    The Failure of Emissions Trading: The Twilight of European Climate Leadership, Part II


    Issues in Emissions Trading - University College Dublin

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Your fixation on me is noted.
    34356645.jpg

    And you claim it's massively overstated because . . . You deny the science.

    Thanks for playing.
    I claim it's massively overstated because... It's massively overstated.

    According to "the science" (whatever that means), not only are the antarctic icesheets not melting at anywhere near the rates various alarmists have claimed in the past, but the supposed "consensus" that today's climate is unusually warm is verifiably false, with temperatures actually being far warmer during the Roman and Medieval periods than today.

    I'm sorry, but vague claims of doom and destruction that aren't predicted to come into play for another couple of hundred years (if they ever come into play at all) and vague theories based off of bald-faced assumptions and a general lack of longterm data really isn't enough hard evidence on which to base a panic enduced restructure of our entire society. Get a grip, grow a sense of rational skepticism, and wise up to the fact that you're being manipulated to serve someone else's agenda.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 02-14-13 at 08:33 PM.

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